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Usual rubbish re EST, numerous members including me have reported lays using evolve, which has EST.

These people who cant get laid on EST, simply don't have the social skills and understanding of the product to use it properly. Further "real life experience" may help.
I fail to see the reason for the tension.

Some product works for some guys great, for others under special circumstances and for the next not at all. The reason could be different body chemistry, different game style, different targets or whatever else. So what? Some praise TLG to high heaven, while others don't get any effects from it, same was last week written on BW. I'm sure all these are good products. Evolve seems to be on the market since many years (this thread itself is 5yo), so there are shurly repeated purchases, otherwise XS would have discontinued it.

For me it was good to learn that it contains Est. Something new learned today.

And now go and love each other.
(03-01-2020 10:31 AM)Marcus Antonius Wrote: [ -> ]I fail to see the reason for the tension.

Some product works for some guys great, for others under special circumstances and for the next not at all. The reason could be different body chemistry, different game style, different targets or whatever else. So what? Some praise TLG to high heaven, while others don't get any effects from it, same was last week written on BW. I'm sure all these are good products. Evolve seems to be on the market since many years (this thread itself is 5yo), so there are shurly repeated purchases, otherwise XS would have discontinued it.

For me it was good to learn that it contains Est. Something new learned today.

And now go and love each other.

No doubt that several EST based products are great sellers. I predicted several years ago that Vendors would use EST based products to make a money grab.

Research what EST is. It is the "opposite" (so to speak) of Testosterone. Only a few Vets have sussed out what it is really doing and how it affects women.

I have written articles, provided research links and cited personal observations on this forum.

It's a hot topic but in my opinion it makes a man be perceived as feminine.

I will be the first to admit that there is so much we don't know about genetics and pheromones.

I will also be the first to cite that many user reports here are incomplete. Many reporters leave out Very Important facts in their reviews. I also spoke about this many times before. For example....a poster will say girls love EST based Product X. They leave out the fact that they only tried it with one girl (his wife, SO, FB or GF). Many posters will declare product X is great simply because a girl talked to him that day.

I like everyone here but the posts are all subjective. Many posts are exaggerated, some are based on Vendor loyalty, some have missing information and most of all...they are all subjective.

False Perception is a general term that includes any experience in which there is a mis-perception of a stimulus. This mis-perception may be due to properties of the stimulus and its surrounding context that make it more likely that it will be incorrectly perceived (i.e., an illusion).

When you change your perception changes.
I wholeheartedly agree that in a report all relevant fact need to be mentioned in order to make a clear picture. I keep that in mind for future post - thanks for reminding. And yes, for me Evolve has only worked with a SO.
I'm aware on the nature of estrogen as the primary female sexual hormon. In men it is made by aromatase from free testosterone, which is unwanted by many because it femenizes the body (less muscles more fat). I think this is clear so far.
But, and I'm far from being any expert here, it might can have a synergistic effect in male Mone mixes. Cops are all made by a female body, most likely to attract males, however there is no doubt that they have a highly attractive potential for some woman. There are potential reasons discussed as signaling female preselection. A similar effect COULD imho also be valid for estrogen. Females gather for mutual protection. There is even an alternative stress response for woman described: tend and befriend instead or in addition to flight or fight. So est COULD have a stess-reducing parasympathetic effect, like being in a protective group of women. Sex typically happen in a parasympathetic state, while in a stress-induces sympathetic state sex would be of no priority.
So a calming synergistic effect of low est in a mix appears not completely impossible to me. So if it works for some - let them use it.
Again, I haven't studied that topic in depth, just my opinion.
Just added: As conclusion of my hypothesis it might be that whether or not Est have an effect depends not on the male wearer but on the female target. If she's stress-prone than there could be a synergistic effect, if she's stress-resistant or comfortable with the situation (e.g. a ONS) than it has no or even a negative effect.
Hmm???
Estratetraenol is found in women's urine. To say EST is to females as testosterone is to males is not accurate.

Androstenedione is in male sweat. So EST is to women as Androstadienone is to men is a bit closer.

Both men and women produce both sex hormones, testosterone and estrogen. Estrogen is not to be confused with EST, either, though I acknowledge that wasn't necessarily implied.
Evolve is not est-based. It has a tiny amount to contribute to the buffering of the enormous amounts of androstenone in it. Since I first purchased it in 2016, I’ve worn it every time I’ve “gotten laid”, except for literally 2 times. But it’s been a lot of times and a lot of women, both new and ongoing. It’s a wonderful product. It may not work for some, but if people claim it hinders their prospects in certain departments, the problem does not lie solely with evolve. I’m my experience it is solid, from attraction to sex.

The dogmatic opposition to anything with even the tiniest amounts of est in it, does not reflect reality and is not helpful.
(03-01-2020 1:19 PM)RTBoss Wrote: [ -> ]Estratetraenol is found in women's urine. To say EST is to females as testosterone is to males is not accurate.

Androstenedione is in male sweat. So EST is to women as Androstadienone is to men is a bit closer.

Both men and women produce both sex hormones, testosterone and estrogen. Estrogen is not to be confused with EST, either, though I acknowledge that wasn't necessarily implied.

Estranol was first found in the urine of pregnant women. It reside in a woman's body and is believed to be synthesized in a woman's ovaries. Estranol is an endogenous steroid found in women.

Testosterone is produced in the Testes and EST is produced in the Ovaries
(03-01-2020 4:30 PM)Paradox Wrote: [ -> ]Estranol was first found in the urine of pregnant women. It reside in a woman's body and is believed to be synthesized in a woman's ovaries. Estranol is an endogenous steroid found in women.

Testosterone is produced in the Testes and EST is produced in the Ovaries

Just to clarify, Evolve contains ESTratetraenol, not Estranol. Estranol and ESTratetraenol are not the same thing.

Apparently ESTratetraenol is aromatized from androstenedione. Didn't know that.

Curious, what is Estranol? From my quick look, it appears to be...an oral contraceptive?

Regarding testosterone, the adrenal glands also release small amounts of testosterone. Women produce it in small amounts, mainly in the ovaries, and again, in the adrenal glands.
Evolve is no way beta, it is buffered(oil is but spray is not that much) ..was wearing andromun's como when it was warm (1 spray of evolve and 25mcg of 96).. I kid you not, a women like 10 feet away snapped and look at me like you creep.1 spray of evolve def too much during the day(maybe 0.5-0.25)...specially when warm...had no problem with 1 drop of oil tho. Had success with evolve oil just before sex to make things interesting. It is a product for dates or sexual encounters to enhance things.For clubs I would rather use AV, BW,cop product or some status or social sexual...not a big fan of clubs or have a lot of experience.
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