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questions about Androstadienone
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Diane999
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Post: #11
RE: questions about Androstadienone
01-07-2010 11:31 AM

So, it basically calms down irritability?

This one is a huge mystery to me.

I do a lot of research literature mining and there are tons of papers on alpha androstenol and androsterone, allopregnanolone, pregnenolone, and TH-DOC, and their effects on brain chemistry, and how they work. But I can't find anything on Androstenone, Androstanone, or Androstadienol except how these are components of sweat. The others are found in sweat also, but they are also neuro-steroids.

Because of the MRI studies on Androstadienol, I was hoping to find more out about this one from the literature, but either I'm looking in the wrong journals or the work hasn't been done. I think part of it is that this molecule is so rapidly changed to androstenone on the skin it isn't taken too seriously as a putative by most researchers, but I don't know for sure.

I have read that the androgens, like this one have different rules for receptor binding, with the 17 carbon position being important. In most pheromones it it the 3 carbon position that is the most important, with the 5 carbon position adding or detracting from binding affinities.

But this one has a double bonded oxygen connected to the 3 carbon (typical for androgens) and nothing attached to the 17 carbon. It just looks inert. And looking at it reminds me of all that I have to learn about pheromones.

I'll have to start doing some tests.

Diane
01-07-2010 11:31 AM
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Snoopyace
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Post: #12
RE: questions about Androstadienone
01-07-2010 11:41 AM

I can't wait to read about your personal experiences with this!  Short answer (which I'm sure you can tell by now I almost never give)- yes.  It definitely seems to calm irritability in my experiences with it.  Especially with PMS symptoms. 

One interesting thing I noticed if I am wearing Androstadienone and I have to visit my mom and my aunt- it makes them even more comfortable complaining to me than usual.  Instead of just the usual venting however, their attitudes always imply that they are looking to me in an almost parental way to fix things for them.  Seems to impart a sense of authority that isn't normally present and it is different from when I wear A314 or Instant Gentleman.  My mom HATES when I wear A314 because she seems to feel like she has to assert her authority when I wear it.  (Think of it as a blind test because she doesn't know about my phero use) IG seems to affect her in a more comforting way.  She just likes to be around me when I wear Instant Gentleman. 

(01-07-2010 11:31 AM)Diane999 Wrote:  So, it basically calms down irritability? This one is a huge mystery to me. I do a lot of research literature mining and there are tons of papers on alpha androstenol and androsterone, allopregnanolone, pregnenolone, and TH-DOC, and their effects on brain chemistry, and how they work. But I can't find anything on Androstenone, Androstanone, or Androstadienol except how these are components of sweat. The others are found in sweat also, but they are also neuro-steroids. Because of the MRI studies on Androstadienol, I was hoping to find more out about this one from the literature, but either I'm looking in the wrong journals or the work hasn't been done. I think part of it is that this molecule is so rapidly changed to androstenone on the skin it isn't taken too seriously as a putative by most researchers, but I don't know for sure. I have read that the androgens, like this one have different rules for receptor binding, with the 17 carbon position being important. In most pheromones it it the 3 carbon position that is the most important, with the 5 carbon position adding or detracting from binding affinities. But this one has a double bonded oxygen connected to the 3 carbon (typical for androgens) and nothing attached to the 17 carbon. It just looks inert. And looking at it reminds me of all that I have to learn about pheromones. I'll have to start doing some tests. Diane


“Funny guys are dangerous. They’ll make you laugh, and laugh, and laugh then boom, you are naked.”

“Charm is the way of getting the answer yes without having asked any clearly defined question” - Oscar Wilde
01-07-2010 11:41 AM
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Diane999
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Post: #13
RE: questions about Androstadienone
01-07-2010 12:13 PM

That is interesting about your mom and A314. I've never heard it leading to women wanting to dominate you before. I wonder if she isn't having a bad reaction to one of the components?

So, this is definitely a masculine pheromone in your experience.

I'm just now going back and rereading the research article where Androstadienone was shown to cause higher levels of cortisol in women by Claire Wyart, Wallace W. Webster, Jonathan H. Chen, Sarah R. Wilson, Andrew McClary, Rehan M. Khan, and Noam Sobel in 2007 . (https://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/fu...1261#SEC3)

According to this paper, women smelling pure androstadienone maintained a better mood, higher sexual arousal, and increased physiological arousal. Increased exposure time was correlated with increased sexual arousal. ANOVA statistically analysis revealed the results were highly significant, meaning these effects were not seen by chance.

The sexual arousal effects were more prominent over the course of the study than the mood elevation.

They did not attempt to figure out any mechanism for this action in this study, so no cause and effect was addressed, only that the effects (cortisol increase, sexual arousal increase, mood elevation) were there post exposure to Androstadienone and lasted approximately 1 hour post exposure.

They used dry Androstadienone in the bottom of a vial for this study, and each participant took 20 sniffs of this or of a dry yeast control. So, there is no way to equate this with the natural setting (sweat) or pheromone dosage in spray.

Hmmm... it gets more interesting.

One more question... Did you ever wear it around any guys, and if so did they show any effects from it?

Diane

(This post was last modified: 01-07-2010 12:15 PM by Diane999.)
01-07-2010 12:13 PM
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Snoopyace
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Post: #14
RE: questions about Androstadienone
01-07-2010 12:19 PM

I can attest to the sexual side effects (at least with my now ex).  We were in a romantic relationship so she felt comfortable expressing how she felt but I see it to a much lesser degree in other women.  Combined with the attraction mixes it definitely boosts things along.

I wondered if my Mom's reaction was either to something else in A314 or if the high Androsterone in it makes her feel like she is not in charge (an illusion but it makes her feel like she is not in control of any situation- unfortunately she does have control issues).  I think it upset what she saw as our traditional family roles.  My ex GF was a very strong woman and A314 made her much less controlling and go with the flow (more like my personality.)  Much more in line with my normal experiences with A314.


(01-07-2010 12:13 PM)Diane999 Wrote:  

That is interesting about your mom and A314. I've never heard it leading to women wanting to dominate you before. I wonder if she isn't having a bad reaction to one of the components?

So, this is definitely a masculine pheromone in your experience.

I'm just now going back and rereading the research article where Androstadienone was shown to cause higher levels of cortisol in women by Claire Wyart, Wallace W. Webster, Jonathan H. Chen, Sarah R. Wilson, Andrew McClary, Rehan M. Khan, and Noam Sobel in 2007 . (https://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/fu...1261#SEC3)

According to this paper, women smelling pure androstadienone maintained a better mood, higher sexual arousal, and increased physiological arousal. Increased exposure time was correlated with increased sexual arousal. ANOVA statistically analysis revealed the results were highly significant, meaning these effects were not seen by chance.

The sexual arousal effects were more prominent over the course of the study than the mood elevation.

They did not attempt to figure out any mechanism for this action in this study, so no cause and effect was addressed, only that the effects (cortisol increase, sexual arousal increase, mood elevation) were there post exposure to Androstadienone and lasted approximately 1 hour post exposure.

They use dry Androstadienone in the bottom of a vial for this study, and each participant took 20 sniffs of this or of a dry yeast control. So, there is no way to equate this with the natural setting (sweat) or pheromone dosage in spray.

Hmmm... it gets more interesting.

One more question... Did you ever wear it around any guys, and if so did they show any effects from it?

Diane


“Funny guys are dangerous. They’ll make you laugh, and laugh, and laugh then boom, you are naked.”

“Charm is the way of getting the answer yes without having asked any clearly defined question” - Oscar Wilde
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2010 12:21 PM by Snoopyace.)
01-07-2010 12:19 PM
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Diane999
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Post: #15
RE: questions about Androstadienone
01-07-2010 12:44 PM

(01-07-2010 12:19 PM)Snoopyace Wrote:  

I wondered if my Mom's reaction was either to something else in A314 or if the high Androsterone in it makes her feel like she is not in charge (an illusion but it makes her feel like she is not in control of any situation- unfortunately she does have control issues).  I think it upset what she saw as our traditional family roles.  My ex GF was a very strong woman and A314 made her much less controlling and go with the flow (more like my personality.)  Much more in line with my normal experiences with A314.

It is doubtful that it is the Androsterone that is getting her dander up.  Androsterone is a powerful GABA enhancing pheromone, which means it is an anti-anxiety, relaxing, trust-building, "let's-all-put-our-feet-up" molecule.  It would have the opposite effect of what you are seeing.

I made up a test spray of Androstadienone at 5.0 mcg/spray... two sprays.  It made me woozy.  It smells like sweat.  I'm not noticing any increased arousal (by myself, though), but I can feel some increased perception enhancement, probably from the cortisol effect.

Wow, this stuff stinks!

Diane

 

01-07-2010 12:44 PM
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SyraBrian
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Post: #16
RE: questions about Androstadienone
01-07-2010 2:42 PM

I'm not the most scientific guy, but I will relate an anecdote that occurred while I was showering with the blue bottle of Dial Magnetic that contains the pheromone in question. Outside of that, no pheromone products.

I spent late summer/early fall  working as a political  canvasser during the  Syracuse  mayoral  campaign.  Most of  the  workers were  male,  and four of use were  named  Brian or  Bryan.  The girls nicknamed us to tell us apart. There  was Teen Brian,  Brian Carr Bomb, Bryan with a "y", and Adorable Brian. Guess who was nicknamed Adorable Brian?

 

 

 

01-07-2010 2:42 PM
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Diane999
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Post: #17
RE: questions about Androstadienone
01-07-2010 3:29 PM

(01-07-2010 2:42 PM)SyraBrian Wrote:  

I'm not the most scientific guy, but I will relate an anecdote that occurred while I was showering with the blue bottle of Dial Magnetic that contains the pheromone in question. Outside of that, no pheromone products.

I spent late summer/early fall  working as a political  canvasser during the  Syracuse  mayoral  campaign.  Most of  the  workers were  male,  and four of use were  named  Brian or  Bryan.  The girls nicknamed us to tell us apart. There  was Teen Brian,  Brian Carr Bomb, Bryan with a "y", and Adorable Brian. Guess who was nicknamed Adorable Brian?

LOL... what a great story!  So, can I call you Adorable Brian?

Diane

01-07-2010 3:29 PM
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Post: #18
RE: questions about Androstadienone
01-07-2010 3:38 PM

(01-07-2010 3:29 PM)Diane999 Wrote:  

 

LOL... what a great story!  So, can I call you Adorable Brian?

Diane


That's a nickname I can live with!
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2010 3:38 PM by SyraBrian.)
01-07-2010 3:38 PM
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zeph
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Post: #19
RE: questions about Androstadienone
01-07-2010 4:16 PM

(01-06-2010 10:19 PM)Diane999 Wrote:  So, Zeph, did you ever try to pair it with IG and TAA/Shine at the same time? I'm so full of questions because the Instant Female Magic (Instant Female Magic ) which I have has never done much of anything for me. I have the Androstadienone (A1) now, so I suppose I should just do a full range of tests, and I probably will before I start using it in mixes. The literature I've seen on it is mostly from people producing products with them in it that reference the vno, which is either partially or fully inoperative in humans. But I did see some brain imaging studies that show strong emotional center effects with exposure to Androstadienone (A1) in both heterosexual women and gay men. Instant Female Magic (Instant Female Magic )... the tech on that said 15 mcg/spray, 3000 mcg/30 ml bottle, 3 pheromones and eo's. But if all it did for you was take the edge off but left you still vulnerable as a target, I don't think I'd want that to be the basis for my blend. I want to make happy juice. I'm just trying to get a handle on what Androstadienone does exactly. Anyway, Zeph... thank you for adding your experience. Diane


I've used Instant Female Magic with most of the molecules/mixes in my collection. I have used Instant Female Magic + IG + TAA (Shine to be precise). IMO Instant Female Magic + IG worked the best for me. Adding Shine or socials to it put it over the top for me. I've used it with some of the more "sexual" mixes as a way of I suppose uber buffering it in hopes of sorta erasing the possible negative effects of -none. If Instant Female Magic worked like a perfect 10 for that time of month, Instant Female Magic is like a 6-7 for what I used it for.

I guess I should also expand on the whole me being a target. I would say... a good 80% of the time I would be ok if something happened to upset the target. Although I can't really say all of it was up to the Pheromones. There were situations where the target is upset due to something I didn't do and being the only person around... well, shit happens (and I can't ever seem to know what to say..lol). I never used it as something to really make me immune in those situations but to really lessen the edge.  I really like how Snoopy used the words comfortable and relaxed because thats what it seems to do in my experience... if anything occurred in the first place. To me, it's one of those molecules that I add on hoping it works (mostly cause I don't know if it's that time of month or not). Never really an essential or a big part of anything I wear. Lately since Instant Female Magic is no longer being made, I use the rest of it very sparingly and generally if I have an idea of whether or not its that time of month.

I guess to expand the effects of Instant Female Magic + IG... it would rarely make me a target. But it also kinda left me a strange feeling. I only have had this with one target, haven't been able to reproduce or see this in others probably due to my relationship with the person. Normally, she'd be fairly chatty and just talk normally. She wouldn't be irritated at me during her period, but she'd be pretty silent about pretty much everything. It's like she was irritated and something was bothering her but never said anything to me about it. I would say that she was less irritated than normal but very standoffish. 

Hope that helps. If Instant Female Magic were to be improved, I'd like it to be a bit happier and perhaps chattier if thats possible. For a few of my targets, Instant Female Magic doesn't do much and you're pretty much shit outta luck (although I don't know if its because the phero doesn't work or if they're in too much discomfort that the Pheromones don't do anything or both?)

01-07-2010 4:16 PM
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renny
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Post: #20
RE: questions about Androstadienone
01-07-2010 4:24 PM

I've seen some of the effects Snoopy and Syra report. I wear Instant Female Magic to extended family functions because of the way it seems to diffuse anxiety. It works well with IG that way. The "adorable" story jibs well with some of my experiences with it as well.

The Androstenone Discussion
01-07-2010 4:24 PM
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