AT comes across as very Alpha to me.. and it I wear too many drops it can make me lose my temper VERY easily. I found it to be purely a business product good for attracting women who like power. Very good for the corporate world.

I’ve never tried it for dating, and I don’t think it’s the best dating product unless combined with stronger sexuals. I know you like OD.. OD is very good.

In deed I found AT the very best for high-level corporate stuff. It also fits the "sigma vibe". It leads to respect from others but is very smooth, maybe because it is oil based. I emptied a bottle of this exclusively with workplace use. At the same time it is - at least in my case - non-threatening to others, I never observed intimidating effects. When I had to deal with top level management, 3 levels above myself on the corporate ladder (these are the folks with 3000 man at command) it was smooth and buddy buddy, mutual respect and the hierarchies forgotten.

With XS Acsend spray however, I had much more the "I challenge my boss" vibe, more aggressive. This can of course lead to a fight-back by the challenged.

With AT I hadn't this. With Ascend however that classy sexy mid-30yo business lady really gave me a 2 min eye fuck in the full meeting room - you most likely also do not see that with AT, which has no cops and no sexual vibe (for me)

I don't care if a mone fits the sigma vibe if it doesn't get people laid. That's why I considered AT solo mostly an alpha product or business product.

(04-27-2022 5:03 PM)dsouza Wrote:  I don't care if a mone fits the sigma vibe if it doesn't get people laid. That's why I considered AT solo mostly an alpha product or business product.

These days I use AT solo as a social when hanging out with friends. It seems to elevate my status among my friends and makes them want to talk to me more which is good because I'm more of a listener and less of a talker.

Yes, there better products to get laid with. But is this thread about getting laid or about enhancing the sigma vibe?

(04-27-2022 4:53 AM)TracerX Wrote:  Imho there's no such thing as a sigma male, even though some of the seduction communities have been raving about it. It's an alpha who chooses to not be part of the hierarchy basically, which is a nice poetic concept but IRL it doesn't work that way. Sure you can be calm cool confident, not give a sh*t about something, that's still an alpha.

But not to spam the topic I'd choose Casanova for this job.

Agreed. Sigma was defined as a lone wolf and had nothing to do with seduction. It seems like the PUA community has adopted it as part of a new grift. They even went so far as to redefine alphas as somewhat combative to justify this new class of chad. IMO Sigma male sounds like a creation of the incel/red pill types.

(04-27-2022 5:26 PM)Blacky Chan Wrote:  Sigma male sounds like a creation of the incel/red pill types.

I don't know when the incel and red pill communities were formed but I did some google searching and the term "Sigma male" seems to have popped up around 2011.

Here are the two oldest article I can find mentioning a "sigma male".
https://alphagameplan.blogspot.com/2011/...archy.html
https://tribune.com.pk/article/8168/alph...ne-are-you

The first one looks like a guy who writes about seducing women. The 2nd article looks like it was published in a newspaper in Pakistan.

Edit:
Found article from a year earlier
https://voxday.net/2010/01/29/roissy-and...s-of-game/

... notches on bed post...
... incel argument...
... I'm out.

RussianWolf, although I can see the benefit of of labels like sigma male, I just wanted to say that you are doing a great job. ❤️

Leave it to the PUA community to take a label based upon false assumptions, distort it into a laughable stereotype that's actually detrimental to picking up women, and then, create another ill-begotten label to compound the original errors.

But wait, Gladen, you say, you are so utterly full of shit! I know, I know, but hear me out on this, then tell me to fuck the hell off.

The concept of the Alpha Male was originally coined by David Mech in the 1970's when he was studying wolves in captivity. He perceived the hierarchy as one-wolf-to-rule-them-all.

Because everyone wants to believe that they are the big, king, hot shit, that gets the lion's share of the bounty, The PUA areas fixated upon it. After all, it explains why you suck with women. Only the "Alpha Male" gets the chicks, the riches, the success, the whatever.

Never mind the fact that Dr. Mech realized that his conclusions were greatly erroneous. When he studied wolves in the wild, he realized that what he had perceived, and published in a book, as the Alpha Male Wolf lording over the others through intimidation and strength, was patently false. In the wild, wolf packs were heralded by both a male and female. He discovered that wolves form their own packs when they mate and what he initially assumed was an Alpha male was actually the father of the other wolves, the caretaker, and looking out for and protecting the others. David Mech even tried to get all copies of his book recalled, and to stop publication, because his initial observations were incorrect.

But, that didn't stop guys from latching on to the mistaken concept. Suddenly, everyone was a self-described alpha. To make things worse, with the influx of everyone trying to out-alpha each other, we saw the idea get further and further distorted until we have the rise of the false-alpha, the Alphole ®.

In a disastrous game of "telephone," where each person passing the concept along distorts it further and further, the concept devolved until any positive precepts of being a true "alpha" were obliterated and the idea became being a rough-and-tumble domineering douchebag that lords lords their power over others through intimidation, iron-fisted brutishness, and keeping others in their place. Despite the fact that such such immature, childish, neanderthal behavior doesn't attract anything remotely resembling a quality woman, the manosphere got hung up on the concept, which is what we see right here.

Then, circa 2010, Theodore Robert Beale comes along and coins the term Sigma male. let me tell you, my fellow pheroites, this guy is a real piece of work. Not only is he the first person, ever, to be thrown out of the Science fiction Writers Guild for being a douche, but he's said such lovely bits of misogyny such as, "women on equal footing with men is a greater threat to science than religion." You guys think I'm full of shit and cray? meet Mr. Beale, who also goes by Vox Day.

So anyway, when he isn't offending everyone else, everyplace else, he also hung around the manosphere and had an epiphany or sorts. He was looking at everyone being all alpha and shit and noted that they still all suck with women. Then he saw the naturals and the guys that actually understand women.

He, like most Alpholes ® was super-pissed off and based his conclusion upon the misconstrued idiocy of his PUA lingo, concluding that there must be another tier in the hierarchy, those that beat the living shit out of this "alpha male." He called them Sigmas, for reasons unknown, but I assume he meant it in the mathematical construct of the "the sum".

Originally described, with loathing and spite, as "those guys that don't play the social game but win at it, anyway" (proper grammar added from the original quote), the saying, once more, became distorted. What he almost hit upon was that what he called the Sigma Male was actually somebody that was too smart to get caught up in the big dick-measuring contest that the PUA community tends to make of everything.

Yes, call me out on that, but it is true. It's all about winning and winning more.


Although we do use the labels here, and other places; the meanings have become distorted, lost in a sea of pseudoscience and psycho-babble. When the totally off-base concept of the Alpha male hit the pickup artist community, it ended up becoming a "who can be the bigger asshole" contest...which I think I just won in writing this. When somebody took a look at what had happened and saw that others that didn't buy into all that bullshit were getting the lion's share, they create an ego-saving bit of lingo for ego-preservation. The Sigma is like me, an alpha, only he's not part of the pack. The Sigma is an Alpha, but he's introverted instead of in-your-face like me. The problem is that the foundation of the Sigma was conceived on misconceptions that grew from a distorted bastardization of other misconceptions.

So, let's break it all down. The modern idea of the badass Alpha ruling over all is based upon observing the violent tendencies of creatures in incarceration. If you see yourself as a modern, bad-ass, knock you down if you fuck with me, Alpha, congratulations, you've just modeled yourself after prisoners. The Sigma concept grew from observing the fallout of following such tripe but still holding on tightly to the original concepts.

What is an Alpha? A TRUE alpha is a man in control of himself, that never compromises his ideals, a man that does what is right because it is right, not because it impresses chicks or keeps the peons in line. Is he a leader? Hell yes, he is, but not because he demands it or because others just aren't alpha-enough. He leads because he motivates, inspires, and looks out for others and they follow his magnetic charisma.

With the distortion of the Alpha concept into the Alphole ®, the false alphas have sullied the image, hence the new limiting category. Now, where EVERYONE was Joe Cool Alpha, it's Sigmas, ahoy!

Be yourself, be your best self, all the time, in all ways. Don't do it because you aspire to whatever label is in vogue; do it because it helps you grow. If you grow, women will flock to you.

Now...tell me to fuck off

(04-28-2022 10:50 AM)Gladen Wrote:  take a label based upon false assumptions, distort it into a laughable stereotype

Isn't this how modern society operates these days?

Most political discourse these days involves ad hominem attacks and reducing opponents arguments to a strawman. Then a label is applied based on these false assumptions.