(01-21-2010 2:19 PM)WildFlower Wrote:  

I joined here because I received a letter about the Ax mix. I have no negativity what so ever and think this forum has a lot of potential. I tried to start a constructive post, but only Renny replied. It was only when I posted in this thread that people wanted to talk. I said I didn't want to start an argument and that I would block out all the androtics negativity.

Quote:I guess them buying the rights to your mix for what, $1,200 has either blinded you toward them, or bought you off! Although I'm guessing that you've probably got a couple of those $1,000 gift certificates too. It's funny how little money it takes to BUY some peoples ethics and morality!

I wasn't paid a penny (dime?) for my two mixes, nor would I want or expect to be either. It was Androtics who approached me about releasing them, not the other way round. I was happy to oblige - I don't feel any ownership of a few formulas that I could certainly not have created on my own.

Quote:Diane, thank you for confirming why Wildflowers" only logical explanation" statement was biased, incorrect and unwarranted. Gegogi, and everyone else he offended, care to put in your 2 cents?

I still can't see why Michael, Jasmin or Steve would logically want to upset Diane, yourself or anyone else. And again I'm completely oblivious to any slandering of past members, or the motives behind doing said slandering. This is the point I was trying to make earlier, they don't owe us any answers. Androtics, however, strike me as being a very accommodating company in that respect.

Quote:I should have mentioned this earlier, but Wildflower take this as an informal warning: it's fine to state your opinions here and dispute what other members say, BUT, it's not ok to call thier statements bullshit and claim they don't know what they are talking about. Most of them have been around a LOT longer than you have! And as far as I'm conerned you have a lot of nerve to question them.

When I said "bullshit", I was referring directly to the posts in this thread which where juvenile, bitch-fest's about Catlord or claims that when Michael says such a thing is sold at a loss he's actually lying to everyone and raking in money.

Quote:I just want to say that I wasn't offended by Wildflower's posts. I just thought he was very mislead and misguided, but to a degree I didn't want to take on.

How can I not be mislead, when it seems it's kept secret exactly what it is that AD has done that is shady? When I question any dislike for AD I'm made out to be naive and told to "go back to fantasy land", yet I'm not allowed to know your collective side of the story of what actually happened. Do they? I got the impression that they bought the individual molecules pre-synthesized from another laboratory in powder form (something Michael said about having to pay huge upfront sums for them). And they made the composites in their own laboratory. Love Scent certainly aren't cheaper than Androtics whatever way you look at it.

Quote:None - 5 mcg/spray TAF - 5 mcg/spray P79 - 10 mcg/spray P83 - 10 mcg/spray P86 - 10 mcg/spray P102 - 10 mcg/spray

wow, I'm very surprised there is no Androsterone or Beta Androstenol in there. I'll have to add p102 to my next order. Thank you - genuinely - for sharing that. I had batch 3 of Mx292 and later batches (batch 8, 13 and later) seem to actually work a bit better for me.

Why dont you actually look before you say Love-Scent prices are certainly not cheaper than AD...... The very first 2 mens products listed from each respective vendor is.

• Ammunition with a measealy 1.5mg phero @ $ 49.95
• Instant Shine ....................3.0 mg phero @$ 39.95
• and Love-Scent.... Alpha 7 ............7.0 mg phero @ $ 59.95
• Alter Ego........................3.375 mg phero @ $ 49.95

Did you learn maths if you attended school ? if you care to look around you will see that AD is amoungst the most expensive on this planet.

Actually i really think you should do some really deep breathing and then think hard and then think again about what the members here are trying to explain to you in clear to understand language, yes please open both eyes son.

The members here are educated folk and actually do have a sound understanding and they do stand up for the truth as it is clearly evident.
Settle down and look at the facts especially take a real good look yep spend a day if you have to then you will see that AD prices are not the best.

If you are prepared to be REAL then you will have little trouble maintaining respect and dignity in your standing amoungst this community, i am sure of this.

I hope so, hopefully it was just a misunderstanding on my part.

(01-21-2010 3:05 PM)Snoopyace Wrote:  

I can tell you that the first bottle of Instant Jerk I got (as a free gift) definitely had a faint odor of copulins.  Subsequent bottles didn't. 

(01-21-2010 2:47 PM)xxx Wrote:  The Blind supporters of AD reminds me of the apple fan boys. lol..

Or Nikon fanboys, Clubs fanboys, religious zealots, Windows lovers, Harry Potter strokers, etc. It's human nature to identify with a "tribe" and believe you're somehow better or more special than everybody else. On the other hand, lots of people avoid the best products or affiliations because they don't want to look like a fanboy or because everybody else is doing it. I guess we're all dumbasses whether fanboys or smug anti-fanboys.

(01-21-2010 3:05 PM)Snoopyace Wrote:  I can tell you that the first bottle of Instant Jerk I got (as a free gift) definitely had a faint odor of copulins.  Subsequent bottles didn't. 

I had the same experience. I just recently realized it when I was testing Essence of Woman . There is a definite difference in scent between the bottle I received in trade from an older forum member and the one I received a few months ago.

(01-21-2010 2:19 PM)WildFlower Wrote:   I wasn't paid a penny (dime?) for my two mixes, nor would I want or expect to be either. It was Androtics who approached me about releasing them, not the other way round. I was happy to oblige - I don't feel any ownership of a few formulas that I could certainly not have created on my own.

Well then, I owe you an apology for assuming that you were paid, as catlord was paid for his mix.  So, I am sorry.

The reason why we created this forum and why you're seeing the animosity here isn't due to any single action.  It was a whole slew of factors, and included things like getting rid of Tisha, the controversy over copulins and the Instant Sexiness products, catlord sending in a molecule/pheromone/copulin? for his mix that Androtics didn't have access to, creating scapegoats and tossing people we respected under the bus, censoring threads/companies/posts/PM's/etc., misdirections, seeing long term members bailing on the forum, posts and long rants made by Michael that didn't read at all like any of his older postings and that didn't appear to have been written by him, and a general feeling that they were being less than honest, masking issues, and trying to steer clear of addressing legitimate questions being asked.  And those are just some of the reasons.

We wanted to be free to talk about whatever we wanted, and to get away from all the drama.

And, one thing I've learned in life, is that those who scream the loudest about what others are doing wrong and boast about how righteous they are, usually are only doing so to shift focus away from them, as they are the ones actually doing wrong.

This thread would never have become the most popular thread here if people weren't frustrated and wanting to vent.  And, the thread wouldn't even exist if pherotalk had not chosen to censor any mention of us in their forum.

It is sad that our most viewed and most replied to thread in the forum, is one venting frustrations and irritations with the company and forum that introduced a great many of us to the world of pheromones, or was at least responsbile for geting us hooked.
 

I don't really have the interest or energy to go into a piece by piece response of the conversation going on here. I also don't really feel like I can say much due to my limited knowledge. I can only really speak on my impressions and experiences.

Now, personally I haven't been wronged. Let's get that out of the way. But you don't have to have been wronged to see the suspicious things going on. From the first day I joined PT, I noticed Love Scent was also referred to as 'the other place'. Why? What did they do? It would have been fine if they had said it like it is: We don't want links to competitors on the site. That's completely within their rights and I would accept it without question. But they didn't. They said that they feel their products are inferior, have bad business practices, etc..and thus don't want to be associated with it. They pretty much implied again and again, that other pheromone companies are taking advantage of the unweary consumer, selling low quality, uninspired -none mixes for a high cost. I've always been a firm believer that if you produce the best product, it will stand out on its own merits, especially if you have it stand next to an inferior product. In short, links to other companies will only improve my perception of AD's quality if that is in fact the case.

As for the MXs/putatives (for "researchers") being sold at cost, I don't think they really are selling it at cost, unless they are somehow computing every little cost that goes into the supply chain. If you want to talk about "logic", no business ever 'logically' sells anything at cost. The best business men always walk away with 51%, never 50%, no matter how small that 1% is.

Now if they are selling mxs/putatives at a loss, that's an even more illogical situation. That would mean they have to maintain larger profits with their consumer products to not only make up the losses from the mxs/putatives, but also to maintain growth. A stagnating company is a dead company. With all the effort and resources going down the drain, AD would benefit much more by focusing on distributing their consumer products. At the very least, they would release a new consumer product that takes advantage of the results found through research, so that they could make back the losses endured during the R&D phase. That's often how R&D pays off. You go into the red developing a product, knowing that eventually you'll be in the black when it goes into production. As a business, you always have to have a way to make it worth it. One way or another, they should expect returns otherwise their company could not have lasted even as long as it has.

Speaking of new products, have you seen a new product come to fruition since being a 'researcher'? I haven't, and it's been at least 2 years. All sorts of mxs have come and gone, without a single new consumer product being released. What is the point of selling putatives/mxs at cost (or even at a loss) if you are never going to capitalize on the research and actually produce a product? There are a lot of unanswered questions. It's perfectly fine to plead the fifth, but don't insult my intelligence and give me the run around.

I'll end with this: Feel free to come to any decision you'd like WildFlower. I do think you either missed or glossed over the numerous positive reviews we have given AD despite our personal experiences.

Tisha Wrote:This company is in my opinion the leader of the pack in pheromone products and technology. They are also very close to my heart, despite the recent craziness going on, as I know they are to many others here.

Renny Wrote:I can't let mention of Smartmones go by without adding Instant Gentleman to the list of great products. It's often overlooked because of the mild mannered name. Nonetheless it rocks.

Phya Wrote:Their consumer products are indeed very good. Personally I like them because I am able To obtain single putatives for use in making my own combinations of pheromones. That, to me is where they rise above the rest. I also recommend this vendor, especially for the instant shine and a314.

Zeph Wrote:Hmm, I have way too many favorites...By far the best in customer service I have ever seen. Any shipping or billing issues that arise is taken care of quickly and courteously. Rarely have any problems and shipping is very quick. Products are great. There is nothing bad about their products or their service.

I'd like to say that while we might be biased due to our experiences, we still try and do our best to objectively review their products. If there is any change in my personal reporting, it is that I don't review putatives anymore as I feel there is no longer any benefit in doing so. I'll never find out what that molecule that putative is, so unless I continue purchasing that putative from AD, I cannot transfer the knowledge elsewhere.

Anyways, as I said, you're free to come to your own judgment on the situation. You are perfectly free to disagree with me or anyone else. But I think you could be more considerate in not calling the claim's of others to be mere bullshit unless you enjoy others calling your claims bullshit without any real evidence.

Quote:Speaking of new products, have you seen a new product come to fruition since being a 'researcher'? I haven't, and it's been at least 2 years. All sorts of mxs have come and gone, without a single new consumer product being released. What is the point of selling putatives/mxs at cost (or even at a loss) if you are never going to capitalize on the research and actually produce a product? There are a lot of unanswered questions. It's perfectly fine to plead the fifth, but don't insult my intelligence and give me the run around.

I've been hanging around since January 2007 and have only seen new test products, tweaks of old products, but no new commercial releases. Well, Instant Female Magic went missing. Ah dunno, perhaps more time is needed for product development?

October 07 here, and not even a single new pre-release! Nothing at all has climbed the ladder, even though there were some great experimentals. And it's even worse for the ladies, with MX134 ad MX135 being staples for them.

Mark, if it's possible and without revealing too much information or putting yourself in trouble could you tell us of more Androtics "secrets" that you may know of if possible? Like formulas, what the hell happened with AMMO going commercial, and what have you? I mean, I'm just very curious... I remember reading a post somewhere that a lot of veteran users were testing something that had to do with AMMO I just don't remember what. I think it having something to do with the commercial release to the general public, but honestly I don't remember exactly what that post stated.

I do tend to think that Androtics has heart though, I remember having a conversation with Michael Storer and he mentioned how overwhelmed he was with Jasmin's generosity of her even having him meet this world famous guy who's famous for chemistry in perfumery. Getting him a set of hypnotism sessions with some guy he said she claims is a wizard. He even said that it's scary because he's usually very suspicious about such enthusiasm and generosity. So who knows? Just sucks that he ditched the copulins project.

He mentioned that he was scouted by Jasmin and that he didn't even know how, but did mention that she seemed quite brilliant and also an unusual personality type. Here's a quote from him:

"She seems to be quite brilliant and also an unusual personality type. The first time I had a meeting with her, she pulled out her checkbook, wrote me a check for a thousand dollars and said, "We want you on our team." It was just that quick and not like something I myself would ever do. She has continued to be as generous with me and seems to be genuinely involved in all sorts of projects to improve the world. There is some guru-like figure behind all of this (I suspect)... a boyfriend or husband whose voice I've sometimes heard in the background, but who remains a mystery. Androtics seems to have plenty of money to throw around and has a huge following. Jasmin told me they can barely keep up with their order demands and are continually growing. The copulin project was laid in my lap because according to her, female clients are driving her absolutely nuts for it. So I am on a retainer of sorts, although I have no contract of any kind with them. It's all very odd to my thinking, but I'm there for the ride as long as it lasts. She has also been totally patient with me while I work on the scent and hasn't pressured me at all. I finally called her two days ago in Oregon and told her I will be sending her several exemplars and will continue to make others. She says she has other projects for me down the road."

So it seems that Androtics has heart, and maybe they may just be misunderstood (minus the bad parts that is like monitoring PM's and other stuff.)

(01-22-2010 3:53 AM)mark-in-dallas Wrote:  October 07 here, and not even a single new pre-release! Nothing at all has climbed the ladder, even though there were some great experimentals. And it's even worse for the ladies, with MX134 ad MX135 being staples for them.

(01-22-2010 3:39 AM)Gegogi Wrote:  I've been hanging around since January 2007 and have only seen new test products, tweaks of old products, but no new commercial releases. Well, Instant Female Magic (Instant Female Magic ) went missing. Ah dunno, perhaps more time is needed for product development?

(01-22-2010 5:15 AM)mikotorocks714 Wrote:  

Mark, if it's possible and without revealing too much information or putting yourself in trouble could you tell us of more Androtics "secrets" that you may know of if possible? Like formulas, what the hell happened with AMMO going commercial, and what have you? I mean, I'm just very curious... I remember reading a post somewhere that a lot of veteran users were testing something that had to do with AMMO I just don't remember what. I think it having something to do with the commercial release to the general public, but honestly I don't remember exactly what that post stated.

I do tend to think that Androtics has heart though, I remember having a conversation with Michael Storer and he mentioned how overwhelmed he was with Jasmin's generosity of her even having him meet this world famous guy who's famous for chemistry in perfumery. Getting him a set of hypnotism sessions with some guy he said she claims is a wizard. He even said that it's scary because he's usually very suspicious about such enthusiasm and generosity. So who knows? Just sucks that he ditched the copulins project.

He mentioned that he was scouted by Jasmin and that he didn't even know how, but did mention that she seemed quite brilliant and also an unusual personality type. Here's a quote from him:

"She seems to be quite brilliant and also an unusual personality type. The first time I had a meeting with her, she pulled out her checkbook, wrote me a check for a thousand dollars and said, "We want you on our team." It was just that quick and not like something I myself would ever do. She has continued to be as generous with me and seems to be genuinely involved in all sorts of projects to improve the world. There is some guru-like figure behind all of this (I suspect)... a boyfriend or husband whose voice I've sometimes heard in the background, but who remains a mystery. Androtics seems to have plenty of money to throw around and has a huge following. Jasmin told me they can barely keep up with their order demands and are continually growing. The copulin project was laid in my lap because according to her, female clients are driving her absolutely nuts for it. So I am on a retainer of sorts, although I have no contract of any kind with them. It's all very odd to my thinking, but I'm there for the ride as long as it lasts. She has also been totally patient with me while I work on the scent and hasn't pressured me at all. I finally called her two days ago in Oregon and told her I will be sending her several exemplars and will continue to make others. She says she has other projects for me down the road."

So it seems that Androtics has heart, and maybe they may just be misunderstood (minus the bad parts that is like monitoring PM's and other stuff.)

Yes, as always there is a good chance that there is our view, their view, and the truth.