(01-20-2010 3:06 PM)WildFlower Wrote:  ... A link to a forum (which discusses Androtics with quite some venom) is removed from a post. duh? (links where never allowed anyway, it's hardly blacklisting)

 

Sorry, I saw the G man's post before it was removed and it was a mention, not a link. And at the time neither this post, nor any negative remarks against PTalk existed here.

Wildflower Wrote:Subsequently this upset people who knew Diane well over there, and they decided to start this forum. What other logical set of events could have occurred? Why would AD deliberately want Diane banned? There is all this talk of "you don't know what happened behind the scenes", and I don't, so forgive me for jumping to conclusions. But the whole "Androtics are smoke and mirrors, if only you knew how nasty they really are..." seems to me to be an attempt to win people over by being deliberately unrevealing. What is there to hide?

 

Wildflower Wrote:  I didn't mean anyone here was self righteous, I was referring, again, to those at PT who demand Androtics supply this that and the other, and feel wronged when they're told "we don't sell Androstadienone (Androstadienone (A1)) anymore, go here instead"

 

Wildflower Wrote:It's reasons like these I'm not buying into the whole Androtics bitterness. A link to a forum (which discusses Androtics with quite some venom) is removed from a post. duh? (links where never allowed anyway, it's hardly blacklisting)

Alright, I'm going to set the record straight! Starting this forum had nothing to do with Diane having been banned. We started this forum BEFORE she was banned!

Gegogi did not place a link to this forum in his post, he merely mentioned there was some information in our forum available to one of their members who had asked a question! The post was edited and he was warned not to mention us again. At that time there was very little negativity toward Androtics on this forum, and just about the only negative posts were made by a couple of the very first members to join this forum, and one of them who I might add was slandered, done wrong and had their character defamed by Androtics. 

When we started the forum we had a fifth Admin, but they launched into a vicious tirade against Androtics, Michael and Jasmin, and we laid into them for it and they are no longer an Admin and no longer come around the forum! So yeah, we hated them so much, that we jumped to their defense when they were slandered, and got rid of one of our own.

We didn't start this forum as an Androtics bashing ground, and when we did start this forum we really didn't have anything against them, we just wanted a place where we could talk about whatever we wanted, without all the drama. We really still bear no grudge against Androtics and still maintain a forum for them in the "Where to Buy Pheromones" forum, with a direct link to their store and a sub "Product Reviews" forum. They are the ones who bear ill feelings, not us!

We started this forum because WE were sick of the lies, smoke and mirrors! There's your logical set of events! I take offense to the statements you've made here and as far as I'm concerned you are talking out of your ass! 

If all you have to contribute here is negativity about our forum and our members, then maybe you should just go back to your little fantasy world at pherotalk. You are more than happy to believe everything that they told you without question, and seem to want to challenge anything negative our members have to say, so maybe this isn't the place for you.

I guess them buying the rights to your mix for what, $1,200 has either blinded you toward them, or bought you off! Although I'm guessing that you've probably got a couple of those $1,000 gift certificates too. It's funny how little money it takes to BUY some peoples ethics and morality!

Uh, I probably shouldn't add anything here, but I want to set my little piece of the pie straight as well.

Mark and Bella started this forum because things were getting weird at AD and they wanted to be sure they had a secure place for their friends to keep on doing what they all like to do, discuss pheromone usage - without worrying about losing contact with each other.

I went my own way from Androtics, and I won't rehash that fiasco again. And they did their own thing, and the two were not interconnected at all. I found this site I think in September, but they had already been going a couple of months before that time.

I was slandered by them and am still being slandered by them. So were others.

But I don't care any more. I'm just glad to be away from them.

They have a history of slandering the people who were their biggest supporters. It has happened before when they drove away top members in the dozens. And it will happen again.

AD has a repeat history of mass exoduses of their best members and contributors. And that should tell you something. And that something is that a few gift certificates thrown people's way instead of treating them as they should be treated is as likely to make as many people repulsed as it is to buy off those who are not as ethically centered.

And AD only has two operating modes when they are questioned... either throw gift certificates your way; or circle the wagons and slander, slander, slander.

Diane

Diane, thank you for confirming why Wildflowers" only logical explanation" statement was biased, incorrect and unwarranted.

Gegogi, and everyone else he offended, care to put in your 2 cents?

(01-20-2010 10:39 PM)mark-in-dallas Wrote:  

Diane, thank you for confirming why Wildflowers" only logical explanation" statement was biased, incorrect and unwarranted.

Gegogi, and everyone else he offended, care to put in your 2 cents?

Actually I put in a whole nickel worth immediately after Mr. Wild's post in question/discussion, so I won't repeat myself. But thanks to those whom defended me. And I'm amazed at your excellent memory of my censored post. And, yes, I mentioned pherotruth and pherolibrary as possible resources for the information he needed and provided no links or negative remarks about Androtics. I was just trying to help the guy out with some custom mixing he asked about. But as they say, no good deed, no matter how small, goes unpunished!

You know, our reviews of AD products and the company itself is positive. I use to be a huge supporter of AD. Fanboy if you must (I NEVER bought anything from anywhere else cept AD until recently). Yeah, they don't owe me shit in terms of having to restock etc. I don't complain about that or think that they owe it to me. It's their business. I'm just tired of them saying one thing and not delivering it. It's such a tease. If they're going to say something and not do it, at least have the decency to tell us that they changed their mind instead of leaving people hanging for months or longer. 

For the censorship, I always thought it was to protect their business from possible competition. Even when I was a fanboy I still thought that their censorship was biased. They would allow mentions of certain phero distributors but not others.

As for how they treat people who don't see things that they do or who just plain tell the truth... I find it really shady. Mark has defended AD in the past with such passion that sometimes he's gotten pretty mean at the people talking shit which honestly took me by surprise sometimes. As for myself, I haven't been wronged by AD. I just don't want to stick so close to them that I get burned. I don't post at PT or visit too often because well... the forum is turning into ignorant newb central. I chalk that up to the lack of veterans not posting and newbies not reading GOOD information. It just seems like they only want to read what they want to believe and they want instant results without the work. And come on, even if an expert were to lead a newbie by the hand you're still going to need to test and retest. Gegogi has given good advice but it just falls on deaf ears. The advice I could give would simply be listen to Gegogi, but if they don't listen to him, they're not gonna listen to me, so why put the effort? They made the forum an unpleasant place to be for many of my friends. I went to PT to read their reviews and their posts/advice. No reason to stay there if they're all gone and no one wants to or cares about what I post. The only good posters there IMO is mik, wild, jayarea, and snoopy. To be fair though, I haven't really read a post for months so it could have improved, but seeing as to what has been said, it seems like it's gotten worse.

And wild, if I were in your shoes, I would probably think the same way if I didn't know what went on. I only know some people's perspectives and experiences with AD, and even then I don't know all of it. But I trust those people and that was all I needed in addition to what's been going on to keep a safe distance from AD. I still use their products and I still think their customer service is great, but now I just take things with a grain of salt.

(01-20-2010 11:14 PM)Gegogi Wrote:  And I'm amazed at your excellent memory of my censored post. And, yes, I mentioned pherotruth and pherolibrary as one of a few possible resources for the information he needed and provided no links or negative remarks about Androtics.

Amazed?  My recollection was that we were referred to as the Evil Empire!  And, I was singled out as the ring master!  By nature, I am of a forgiving nature, but I never forget!

Life has taught me to hold my friends close, and my enemies even closer!

I should have mentioned this earlier, but Wildflower take this as an informal warning: it's fine to state your opinions here and dispute what other members say, BUT, it's not ok to call thier statements bullshit and claim they don't know what they are talking about.  Most of them have been around a LOT longer than you have!  And as far as I'm conerned you have a lot of nerve to question them.

And Wildflower, just so you know how anti Androtics we really are here, this is one of our latest posts, although I have a feeling that your agenda may prevent you from actually seeing the post, but maybe, just maybe you can chew on this latest post from zeph that's so totally anti Androtics for just a bit. 

And, a big thanks to zeph for being true to who you are and maintaining the spirit of this forum with your contributions, including this one:

xeph Wrote:I should be studying but well... procrastination.

Come Talk To Me: 2 sprays
IS 4x: 1 spray
Honesty 4x: 1 spray
P83 10mcg: 1/2-3/4 spray

I put this hoping to attract a particular target but that didn't turn out too well. Different rooms. Buuuuut... I did get a few other hits. 2 girls opened me while I was on the computer in lab. One was caucasian, other was south east Asian I want to say. A guy also started talking to me and helped me out during lab which was fairly random. It really seemed like people floated around me unless they had to do something for their lab. When I initiated a conversation, it felt like it went on longer than it had to. I was focused on studying since my TG wasn't around my cloud so I didn't really care too much (yea, I know I'm no fun). I put on the mix about an hour before. People were exposed to me for about 5 minutes before they came over to me.  I also found myself smiling a lot more which is pretty strange. Anyhow, time to hit the books... It's possible to learn by osmosis right?

(01-20-2010 10:39 PM)mark-in-dallas Wrote:  

Diane, thank you for confirming why Wildflowers" only logical explanation" statement was biased, incorrect and unwarranted.

Gegogi, and everyone else he offended, care to put in your 2 cents?

 

I just want to say that I wasn't offended by Wildflower's posts.  I just thought he was very mislead and misguided, but to a degree I didn't want to take on.

You know it is one thing to have a heated discussion and quite another to go off as a white knight when you don't have the facts.  But that happens a lot on the internets and it is just futile to try to combat it.

Diane

 

By the way, I am an Admin and as I operate the web design company that created and hosts this forum, I can shut it down forever and delete everything ever posted with just one click. And, the other Admins can also shut the forum down with one click.  But that's something that none of us would ever do! 

And, each of the admins do know that there are going to be competitors, trolls, and those that just want to cause trouble and are going to devote all their time and efforts into trying to ruin this forum.

But, each of us are dedicated to remaining true to our commitments and promises to provide our members with an unbiased and uncensored venue for talking about and sharing pheromone information, as we promised our members we would, even if that means never turning our backs or at times having to warn or ban a member.

And, we'll not act secretly, our members will always know why we've taken any actions that we feel the need to take, unless there's a real legitimate reason that we cant keep them informed.  And, that's just one of the things that sets us apart from the other forums and lets our members know that they truly do matter.