(01-19-2010 2:47 PM)WildFlower Wrote:  I read the entirety of this thread the other week (the largest thread on the forum) and the negativity literally overwhelmed me. I felt physically heavy and worn out from it. I was going to write a counter view on each of the claims I thought were false (that MX's aren't sold at a loss, that Catlord doesn't know what he's talking about, etc) but I didn't come here to argue. I can understand the frustration that when browsing Pherotalk, you have to mentally filter out all the "when is Instant Female Magic (Instant Female Magic ) back in stock" posts, but it's equally frustrating that every other post here is full of made up bullshit about Androtics.

WildFlower, I'm not going to take personal offense to this because we don't really know each other.

To stress what Tisha said, this forum was not created to bash AD, despite what you may think. You're entitled to your opinion and are free to express yourself on the subject the same as everyone else. 

(01-20-2010 4:26 AM)Gegogi Wrote:  So the threatening PMs and phone calls, bannings and censoring of PMs and posts at Pherotalk are simply negativity and lies? Could the truth be somehow repackaged in a more positive light? Sure, but you can only dress up banning and censorship so much. I can't account for any of the posts but my own, but I strongly suspect most of the posts herein are grounded in personal experience. I am the OP of this thread and simply wanted to share that my post referencing this forum (in passing mind you) was removed at Pherotalk and I was warned not to mention Mark or Pherotruth again. Not even in PMs. No bullshit or exaggeration. Just the plain truth. I realize in a world of spin truth is damn difficult to appreciate or even recognize.

I believe you G, not to mention I saw that post with my own eyes.

Personally, I'm not about to point a finger at someone for no reason. I seriously need grounds to be provoked. I have been and I'm not standing here alone.

Just because someone doesn't believe me doesn't make what I say untrue. No matter, their disbelief will never change or stand in the way of the truth. So, they can believe whatever they want. I really don't care.

I've lived long enough to know that I can't change the way anyone else thinks and that no matter what I say or how I say it, they'll draw their own conclusions. I ain't gonna bang my head against a wall trying to convince someone that I know I can't reach. I have better things to do with my time. If they've been around long enough and been paying attention they may see what's become evident to me.

AD aside.

I generally take people at their word and believe them, until they show me that I can't.

I have respect for my friends. I open my heart to them, put faith in them, trust them, and think enough of them to believe they're telling me the truth. 

And in turn, my friends respect me enough to trust me to tell them the truth because they know I care for them and their well being. I'm straight up and they always know where they stand with me. If I didn't hold up my end I wouldn't have much respect for myself and I certainly wouldn't be much of a friend. Why in God's name, or anyone else's, would I lie to them? What purpose does it serve? They may not always like hearing what I have to say but I'd be remiss, as their friend, in not telling them the truth. Either way I've done my duty, said my piece and they can take it from there.

If you lie to your friends, you have nothing.


Bella

(01-20-2010 6:36 AM)Bella Wrote:  I generally take people at their word and believe them, until they show me that I can't.

I have respect for my friends. I open my heart to them, put faith in them, trust them, and think enough of them to believe they're telling me the truth. 

And in turn, my friends respect me enough to trust me to tell them the truth because they know I care for them and their well being. I'm straight up and they always know where they stand with me. If I didn't hold up my end I wouldn't have much respect for myself and I certainly wouldn't be much of a friend. Why in God's name, or anyone else's, would I lie to them? What purpose does it serve? They may not always like hearing what I have to say but I'd be remiss, as their friend, in not telling them the truth. Either way I've done my duty, said my piece and they can take it from there.

If you lie to your friends, you have nothing.


Bella

{{{Bella}}}

Your heart is true for all to view.

 

 

(01-20-2010 1:30 AM)xxx Wrote:  My calculator tells me that 69.72% of Pherotalk users are brainwashed and according to my research Mxs mixed into a 30 ml bottle cost $90 at least to us.

If you take, arguably, the most popular MX, MX292 (MX353), which is said to be 50mcg per spray and compare that to the price of a 30ml bottle of p74 at 50mcg per spray which costs $101.97 you can at least see that MX's are sold at discount prices to what the putative's are (and the consumer line). And this is before you take into account that some of the putatives themselves are sold at a lost. Michael said MX292 was an expensive mix to produce, and I believe him.   

Catlord said his calculator was something he developed from a separate interest of his. And he has repeatedly mentioned at PT that he is interested in astrology. Perhaps his 'calculator' is the manual (he's also mentioned that his calculator is manual) application of astrology (personality, human affairs, etc) to what he has learnt, himself, about pheromones. I personally don't believe in astrology or know even if that is what his calculator is based upon, but why knock him for trying something new and novel? He knows as much as anyone when it comes to pheromones and his pheromone mixes were fantastic (not to mention his subliminals he produces and sells).

Quote:That was supposed to be a joke Wild, relax.

I wasn't referring to you Miko. I know you were joking, but people at PT say stuff like that all the time and they aren't joking. As if they feel wronged that their favourite putative has been out of stock for a whole week or something. And it only goes out of stock in the first place because people buy the particular flavour of the month on mass.

Quote: I am sorry you feel physically heavy and worn out just from reading the posts here and you are welcome to counter view anyone's claim in here. I have often done so myself when a false claim is made about them but I dont let my love for a company blind the truth either. Its like I always said over at PT. Everything is about balance. You may think some of the complaints are bullshit and some of the petty ones are but the wrongs that have been done run much deeper then that and you have to stop and look who is posting these complaints you consider bullshit. These are some of the most loyal followers of androtics. You have been there a little over a year maybe two. These are members who have been there 5 or 6 years. They are not going to walk away without good reason and perhaps there is many things you dont know.

Like I said, a lot of the complaints are so cryptic, I can't even tell what the problem is - it's as if I've started reading a novel where the first 10 pages have been ripped out, totally confusing. As far as I could tell, what happened was: Diane approached Androtics to start supplying copulins, Androtics agreed but a settlement regarding legal details couldn't be made between the two parties, Diane threw her toys out the pram, sent threatening PM's and Michael had to ban her. Subsequently this upset people who knew Diane well over there, and they decided to start this forum. What other logical set of events could have occured? Why would AD deliberately want Diane banned? There is all this talk of "you don't know what happened behind the scenes", and I don't, so forgive me for jumping to conclusions. But the whole "Androtics are smoke and mirrors, if only you knew how nasty they really are..." seems to me to be an attempt to win people over by being deliberately unrevealing. What is there to hide?

Quote:No they dont owe us formulas, special editions, or any of those petty little things people asked for or were promised from them. They do however owe us something. Respect and Honesty. Its something I expect from every company I do business with. My husband owns a successful business and its something he gives his customers always. No one is self righteous here, a majority of the users including you have no ideal the disrespect that occurred over there to many of those loyal customers. I am not talking about myself either because they have never done anything that hurt me but I watched helplessly as they did it to others and I finally couldnt stomach it anymore so I stepped down. I am not going to publicize what they have done in this forum or any other because its not my place to do so. The only thing I will say is that its not Steve, He is a good man doing a tough job. If those people want to vent about those hurts that's their business but dont judge them as self righteous for venting it because people have been hurt over there. Just because you are not aware of it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. You only see what they allow you to see and dont forget that. No one loved that company more then I did. I still do love many things about the company but I wont let that love blind me to there faults. I often stand up just as I have done in this thread and defend things they have done but there are others things I cant defend and I certainly dont judge those people for their feelings.

I'm sure your husband treats his customers with respect and honesty. I believe Androtics do the same. It is a unique position for them to be in though: when the 'customer' starts getting ideas about releasing a product through the company or what have you. I think they deal with that side of things quite well (accommodating former customers as employees). To some extent, the customers may be able to create better products than the originals and the fact that Androtics are willing to work with people in that way is admirable. They don't owe us that though, it is a privilege is it not? I couldn't approach Ford and tell them to manufacture a car I designed.

Yeah, I have no idea what the disrespect to loyal customers was or is. Nor can I conjure up a reason why they would want to be disrespectful either. Those are the complaints which keep going over my head time and time again.

I didn't mean anyone here was self righteous, I was referring, again, to those at PT who demand Androtics supply this that and the other, and feel wronged when they're told "we don't sell A1 anymore, go here instead"

Since I don't post enough thus gaining the rep to be consider a potential threat, AD has never really contacted me about posts one way or another. However when you consider the logistics of PT it's at the very least conceivable certain accounts of mistreatment hold merit. While I can empathize with anyone's frustration at an injustice perpetrated against them, other then from a third person perspective, this has not been my experience.

Which is why my contribution to this thread feels inappropriate and why I have chosen to stay out of it (and will probably do so in the future). With that said I did want to respond to this:

(01-20-2010 12:40 PM)WildFlower Wrote:  If you take, arguably, the most popular MX, MX292 (MX353), which is said to be 50mcg per spray and compare that to the price of a 30ml bottle of p74 at 50mcg per spray which costs $101.97......

Since none of us have the privilege of seeing Androtics books it is hard to know whether or not any particular product is being sold at a loss. Furthermore why would you use the price of 30ml as an example of savings in comparison to 5ml of product? 50mcg per spray @ 5ml would be $41.97* not $101.97*.

*(non-discount price)

The view I was trying to get across is more of a pragmatic one. Because we don't know how much anything really costs Androtics to acquire it is impossible to be certain if claims of taking a loss are true. If we were to use the discounted price as a guide then $90 per 30ml of 50mcg seems about right. However $14.97 per 5ml of 50mcg appears to be steal when you compare it to $27 for a Putative/ Experimone. Although appearances can be deceiving.                                                                       My guess is that with certain MXs, Putatives, Experimones, they make a killing, very little with others, and possible take a small loss or break even on a few.

The fact of the matter is we just don't know, nor do we have the right to. Synthetic pheromones are not a natural resource and therefore any companies that sell them may charge whatever they want. It's up to us as consumers to send the message of what is tolerable by choosing to purchase or not. 
In that sense I think we have consensus, where we differ is the willingness to believe statements of altruistic sales resulting in losses without proof.

On another note, I may be mistaken but it was my understanding that links were always tolerated by Androtics as long as a company wasn't on the blacklist.

Just making sure Wild, didn't want you to take it the wrong way is all.

I agree, and this rings true especially with P96 which I have heard that it's expensive to make so taking in what Tisha mentioned about AD possibly having financial troubles I can clearly understand why P96 hasn't came back. Especially if it's only going to be "abused" by newer members wanting to only try it out because of all the wondeful things they've heard about P96 for example. That's why I kind of left a joking comment in Tisha's post where she tested out P119. Newer pheromone users hear a great thing then jump to it, hell I won't lie I have done it my self too but thanks to the more experienced users like Tisha, renny, Mark, you WildFlower, and the many more I forgot to mention I know to make sure I test things alone and really try to understand a product first before just giving up on it.

As far as what I think about what may be going on with AD I'm not quite sure what's going on with the actual bussiness really, but what I did mean by my other comments were directed more toward the fact that the forum is just not the same anymore. Which sucks, but as it has been mentioned Steve can only do so much. As far as everything else, who knows? Well, at least I personally still don't know.       

(01-20-2010 12:44 PM)WildFlower Wrote:  

I wasn't referring to you Miko. I know you were joking, but people at PT say stuff like that all the time and they aren't joking. As if they feel wronged that their favourite putative has been out of stock for a whole week or something. And it only goes out of stock in the first place because people buy the particular flavour of the month on mass.