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Another Senseless School Shooting
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stefdude
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Post: #21
RE: Another Senseless School Shooting
05-20-2018 3:36 PM

(05-20-2018 3:33 PM)RussianWolf Wrote:  Try doing some research...
Even a "normal" person that uses Chantix to quit smoking can have suicidal thoughts.

I know about the side effects of popular drugs.But that doesn't mean that it will make you a mass murderer.It's not like the cause is missing, it's their families, especially the lack of a father figure.

They've done studies you know...60% of the time, it works every time
05-20-2018 3:36 PM
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Saiyanprince
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RE: Another Senseless School Shooting
05-20-2018 3:39 PM

Do you have a kid on a prescription drugs to antisocial disorder? Watch what happens when you take him off. The violent behaviors will increase worse thsn when you put him on it.

I watched what happened to a high school kid that took himself off his meds. He was easily manipulated, depressed and eventually took his live. Now combine that mentality with what's going on in the news and they create a world that they think will cause fame or a belonging.

Instead of drugging these kids and adults find a way to cure them or treat them with out hard pills that they have to take for the rest of their lives.

It's not just the drugs. Combine that with a broken mind, a broken home, a broken school system, a broken media system that is truly just a tool to "program" your mind for an agenda and the easy access to a gun.

Fix these and the gun issue fixes itself.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2018 3:39 PM by Saiyanprince.)
05-20-2018 3:39 PM
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mark-in-dallas
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Post: #23
RE: Another Senseless School Shooting
05-20-2018 3:47 PM

(05-19-2018 11:42 AM)mark-in-dallas Wrote:  I am sure that most I could be completely off base, but I believe that a simple and easy solution would be to stop releasing the names of School shooting suspects, or at least prevent the news media from releasing them.

I spent this morning writing emails to Governor's Abbot (Texas) and Cuomo (New York), Kenny Marchant ( my Congressman) and the White House, suggesting the idea of enacting legislation to prevent the release of the names of School shooting suspects, or at least prohibit the news media from releasing them.


WiggleWasser Wrote:No sir, I am not incorrect. Your original assertion was for legislation to prevent the media from releasing names of school shooters. That is what I replied to and my position is the correct one.

Nice try, but not quite right. My original assertion was to enact legislation to prevent the release of school shooting suspects names, and failing that with a fallback option of prohibiting the media from releasing those names.

I may not have been specific enough for you in stating that the legislation suggested was intended to prevent release of information by Law Enforcement or other Government Agencies, but the sentence that followed should have made that clear.

Granted, releasing the name of a suspect to the media, then prohibiting them from publishing that name would require amending or repealing the 1st Amendment.

National and/or Local Governments do have every right to withhold the name of a suspect in a criminal action, investigation or arrest though, for a variety of reasons.

Sympathy for the Devil only results in victimized angels.
05-20-2018 3:47 PM
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mark-in-dallas
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Post: #24
RE: Another Senseless School Shooting
05-20-2018 4:14 PM

(05-20-2018 3:39 PM)Saiyanprince Wrote:  Do you have a kid on a prescription drugs to antisocial disorder? Watch what happens when you take him off. The violent behaviors will increase worse thsn when you put him on it.

ADD, ADHD, and all of the other anti social personality disorders were made up in the last 30 years to absolve parents of bad parenting.

When I was a kid, they called the kids that couldn't concentrate and/or caused problems misfits and troublemakers and they were punished for bad behavior.

Guess what, for centuries and centuries that practice worked just fine, kids didn't need to be medicated into complacency, and they went on to live normal productive lives.

In today's society parents are told how they can and cannot discipline their children, educators hands are tied as to what they can and cannot do, and children know that all they have to do is scream child abuse and they are likely to get whatever they want and do as they please.

We have all but taken the parent out of parenting, and relegated educators to the role of indoctrinating children into what the powers that be deem to be acceptable beliefs and behavior.

Sympathy for the Devil only results in victimized angels.
05-20-2018 4:14 PM
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WiggleWasser
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Post: #25
RE: Another Senseless School Shooting
05-20-2018 4:18 PM

(05-20-2018 3:47 PM)mark-in-dallas Wrote:  National and/or Local Governments do have every right to withhold the name of a suspect in a criminal action, investigation or arrest though, for a variety of reasons.

Now, THAT is incorrect. ALL arrests and trials are public information.

Please feel free to prove me wrong by citing a specific court ruling.

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Alter Ego, Chikara, Scent of Eros, Perception, Edge, Imprint, THU, Unresistable, Treasure Shine, TUTH, TAC, P83, GOA, LIIK, NPA, The Love God, and a dozen or so others from LPMP.
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2018 4:21 PM by WiggleWasser.)
05-20-2018 4:18 PM
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mark-in-dallas
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Post: #26
RE: Another Senseless School Shooting
05-20-2018 5:05 PM

(05-20-2018 4:18 PM)WiggleWasser Wrote:  Now, THAT is incorrect. ALL arrests and trials are public information.

Please feel free to prove me wrong by citing a specific court ruling.

Alright you want to be a smart ass? You show me a specific Court Ruling, Legislative Act, or Bill that requires Arrests and Trials to be made a matter of public information.

If you want to argue that I'm wrong that's fine, but you're not then going to tell me to prove I'm right. Prove me wrong, and if you can do so then I will apologize.

Sympathy for the Devil only results in victimized angels.
05-20-2018 5:05 PM
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theLaw
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Post: #27
RE: Another Senseless School Shooting
05-20-2018 5:20 PM

(05-20-2018 4:18 PM)WiggleWasser Wrote:  Now, THAT is incorrect. ALL arrests and trials are public information.

Please feel free to prove me wrong by citing a specific court ruling.

Here are a few ideas. Note that the "court ruling" citation that you are requesting is not as simple as a binary yes/no, but much more nuanced as shown here:

Quote:Withholding names and information
This section addresses these ethical issues:


When should the names of people in the news be withheld?
Are some people both public and private?
Who decides when to name someone?
What other information might be withheld?
In addition to the issue of naming names in crimes or questions of possible illegal activity, many other questions come up about withholding names and information.


Most ethical codes will include a reference to showing consideration for people either not used to dealing with the media or those dealing with grief or shock. Children also deserve special mention because they cannot give informed consent. And there are often laws dealing with photos and speaking to children, especially in relation to crimes.

Rape/Sexual Assault Victims
Much has been written about whether victims in some cases should be named, given the high-profile nature of the crime. The general belief is that, given the stigma sexual assault carries in most societies, media should refrain from identifying victims of most sexual crimes, unless the victim is willing to speak publicly. Many believe it is more important to report their relationship with the accused and what happened, rather than the names — as long as these details don’t specifically identify the person. The cases should then be covered to the end.

Sometimes assault victims agree to be identified. In other cases, a person may become well known as a missing person (e.g., the Elizabeth Smart case in the United States), and when it ultimately turns out that she was a victim of sexual assault, it is too late to remove the name from the story. (If the case is not such a high-profile matter, it is still possible to stop using the name.)

Some believe that if a rape accuser’s allegation is shown to be false and malicious, she is no longer entitled to privacy. You might not want to identify an accuser simply because a defendant is acquitted, though. The lack of witnesses and physical evidence in many sexual assault cases makes it a difficult crime to prove to the high standard of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. If media identify accusers routinely in cases of acquittals, you might increase the reluctance of victims to press charges.

Breaking news
News organizations that cover breaking news sometimes have the names of victims of crimes, accidents or disasters before authorities have notified their families. You might have names from neighbors, witnesses or even officials.

One position in such cases would be to withhold the names until authorities have released them. Another position would be to publish names as soon as you have them verified. A middle position might be to wait until authorities have released names in most cases, but make exceptions if a person is prominent, if authorities appear to be delaying release of names for no good reason, or if you learn from family that the closest relatives have been notified.

Factors to consider in deciding your position in these cases are newsworthiness, the impact of reporting a death incorrectly if your sources are wrong and whether you would want to learn of a loved one’s death through the media.

Suicide
There have been a number of high-profile suicides by teens with allegations they were bullied or cyberbullied. In these cases, the parents have come forward with their names and stories, and the names of the potential bullies have not been reported. Many news organizations wrestle with the question of naming these accused bullies before they are charged with any crime. If formal charges are filed against a minor, the news organization can refer to its own policy on identifying minors charged with crimes.

Some news organizations also decide to withhold details of suicides or not to report on suicides unless they happened in public or involved public figures or important public issues. See the separate module on suicides.

Kidnap victims/journalists
Few support a double standard in identifying kidnap victims, whether they are journalists or not. The essential need is to balance the safety of the individual with the public’s need to know — especially in the case of a prominent person. Questions to ask include what do the kidnappers know? Do they know whom they’ve kidnapped?

As to reporting on the kidnap itself, sometimes it’s easier to free a hostage if there is no publicity. In other cases, publicity helps — especially if, for instance, it’s to make clear that a person is a journalist, businessperson, or priest and not a spy.

Mass killers
There is a growing sentiment that the names of mass killers should not be mentioned, or more realistically, that their names and photos should not be the focus of the news. This is because they often seek attention in their acts and feeding that could fuel copycats.

Most news organizations still identify mass killers, though, saying their identities and information about them are important parts of the story. These organizations say there is great curiosity about these people and a public policy value to identifying what turns them into murderers. It can be equally important to understand what made the person commit the crime, as to tell the stories of the victims. Still, some of these organizations try to avoid constantly showing photos of people accused of mass killings.

People facing intolerance in their societies
Madeleine Bair of WITNESS notes that in some nations and situations, identifying gay people and activists against government policies may cause them danger.

Information involving public safety, security and military operations
Many journalists agree to withhold information that could give away imminent police and military operations. In Paris in January 2015, television stations were accused of revealing on the air the locations of people hiding from terrorists who had seized their workplaces. Many journalists agree that such information should not be broadcast because attackers are likely to be able to watch the coverage. Journalists accompanying military units also often agree to maintain “operational security.”

At the same time, the question arises as to what truly should be secret. Edward Snowden claimed that material about NSA activities he revealed was an important subject for public debate. Computer hackers who attacked Sony Pictures in December 2014 revealed newsworthy information about the company. Should such material be received and quoted by news media? The short answer is, it depends. Have laws been clearly violated, or is there another compelling reason for public disclosure? Is anyone’s life at risk? Is there any harm in waiting to disclose the information?

Public/private people
At what point do private people, such as family members of politicians, become part of the narrative? Many journalists believe this depends in part on how public the family members have become or whether family matters reflect any hypocrisy or misconduct by an official.

Similar questions arise in the situation of private people who are suddenly thrust into the public eye because of news events that involve them. As you decide how much attention their personal lives merit, consider questions such as how willingly they embrace or exploit the attention, how relevant their private lives are to the public issue that thrust them into the spotlight, and how open they are being about the matter in social media.

Whose decision to name names?
The decision to name people involved in certain situations is sometimes controlled by law, but more often by societal conventions. In some cases, journalists may even take a calculated risk in terms of the law if they believe that identifying someone is clearly to the public’s benefit.

It is interesting to consider the impact of the EU right to privacy convention and how that is affecting the freedom of expression in journalism. The other idea gaining ground in Europe especially is the “right to be forgotten.” How will that mesh with a permanent, online, easily accessible journalism?

https://ethics.journalists.org/topics/wi...formation/

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05-20-2018 5:20 PM
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WiggleWasser
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Post: #28
RE: Another Senseless School Shooting
05-20-2018 5:53 PM

(05-20-2018 5:05 PM)mark-in-dallas Wrote:  Alright you want to be a smart ass? You show me a specific Court Ruling, Legislative Act, or Bill that requires Arrests and Trials to be made a matter of public information.

If you want to argue that I'm wrong that's fine, but you're not then going to tell me to prove I'm right. Prove me wrong, and if you can do so then I will apologize.

Maybe the 6th amendment?

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and PUBLIC trial."

Now, since you have chosen to start name-calling, I will remove myself from this thread.

PS...In any debate, the burden of proof rests with the party asserting something as fact. So, yes, I can expect you to prove something that you say is true, while I have no requirement to prove you wrong.

Debater #1: "The moon is made of cheese."
Debater #2: "Proof?"
Debater #1: "I don't have to prove anything. YOU prove me wrong."

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(This post was last modified: 05-20-2018 5:59 PM by WiggleWasser.)
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theLaw
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Post: #29
RE: Another Senseless School Shooting
05-20-2018 6:16 PM

(05-20-2018 5:53 PM)WiggleWasser Wrote:  Maybe the 6th amendment?

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and PUBLIC trial."

For the record, I posted a whole page of clear exceptions to this, which you could have addressed, but instead you decided to focus on being called a hurtful name.

As for your "proof" above, that language could be interpreted in a number of different ways (and has been by many judges), so again, I understand that you want to live in a simple binary world, but that's just not reality.

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(This post was last modified: 05-20-2018 6:17 PM by theLaw.)
05-20-2018 6:16 PM
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mark-in-dallas
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Post: #30
RE: Another Senseless School Shooting
05-20-2018 7:38 PM

(05-20-2018 5:53 PM)WiggleWasser Wrote:  Maybe the 6th amendment?

"In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and PUBLIC trial."

The 6th Amendment doesn't address arrests at all. Beyond that, you apparently you didn't bother to read the Annotations to the 6th Amendment guaranteed Right to a Public Trial, which can be FOUND HERE stating "The Right to a Public Trial is personal to the defendant and may not be asserted by the media or the public in general."

Nor did you bother to search court challenges to the Right to a Public Trial and the Supreme Court's 1966 ruling In Sheppard v. Maxwell, 384 U.S. 333, finding that "the Right to a Public Trial is not absolute."

So yeah, call me wrong repeatedly, cite a broad based Amendment to support part of your claim, without bothering to read the applicable Annotations to that Amendment and without bothering to look for relevant case law, then run away because I called you a smart ass for challenging me to prove that I'm right, without having offered any explanation as to why you believed that I was wrong.

(05-20-2018 6:16 PM)theLaw Wrote:  For the record, I posted a whole page of clear exceptions to this, which you could have addressed, but instead you decided to focus on being called a hurtful name.

As for your "proof" above, that language could be interpreted in a number of different ways (and has been by many judges), so again, I understand that you want to live in a simple binary world, but that's just not reality.

He didn't seem to be interested in addressing anything other than whether I was right or wrong. And, that language is interpreted differently and clarified further in the Amendment itself.

Sympathy for the Devil only results in victimized angels.
05-20-2018 7:38 PM
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