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What supplements are you taking?
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wiserd
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Post: #41
RE: What supplements are you taking?
07-04-2012 3:06 AM

(07-03-2012 5:47 PM)Lexy Wrote:  Does anyone know if it's a fact that there is more cancer in the places where there are heavy SS users? Or that people that live in sunny areas don't get as sick?



IIRC, people in sunnier areas get less cancer I THINK, but I can't find the citation offhand. I'd be surprised if they didn't get fewer colds, regardless of vit D3. D3 isn't the only good thing that comes from sunlight, though. Sunlight helps break down bilirubin, it consumes cholesterol, our circadian rhythm is based on sunlight, etc. I'm still trying to puzzle out just what's a cause and what's a correlation in regards to D3. In regards to skin cancer, Those with a relative who had non-melanoma skin cancer seemed most likely to benefit from supplements suggesting that certain subgroups get considerably more benefit from supplementation than the general population.



Quote:Even a controlled supplementation of vitamin D in patients with vitamin D deficiency is considered as reasonable. However, an uncritical substitution of high-dose vitamin D should be avoided because of the risk of hypercalcaemia.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22492477

I'd argue that K2 could offer some help with hypercalcemia.

Quote:The study included long-term follow-up of participants in a two by two factorial, randomized controlled trial from 21 orthopedic centers in the United Kingdom.
PARTICIPANTS:

Participants were 5292 people (85% women) aged at least 70 yr with previous low-trauma fracture.

CONCLUSIONS:

Daily vitamin D or calcium supplementation did not affect mortality, vascular disease, cancer mortality, or cancer incidence.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22112804

Quote:In the Women's Health Initiative (WHI) trial of calcium plus vitamin D (CaD), we examined the treatment effect on incidence and mortality for all invasive cancers. Mortality did not differ between supplement (315, annualized% = .26) and placebo [(347, 0.28%; P = 0.17; HR = 0.90 (0.77, 1.05)]. Significant treatment interactions on incident cancer were found for family history of cancer, personal total intake of vitamin D, smoking, and WHI dietary trial randomized group. [b]Calcium/vitamin D supplementation did not reduce invasive cancer incidence or mortality. Supplementation lowered cancer risk in the WHI healthy diet trial arm and in women without a first-degree relative with cancer. The interactions are only suggestive given multiple testing considerations. The low vitamin D dose provided, limited adherence, and lack of serum 25(OH)D values should be considered when interpreting these findings.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21774589


(I don't understand how vit-d intake can be a 'significant treatment interaction' if supplementation doesn't produce a significant difference... too tired ot figure it out now. )


Quote:Vitamin D supplementation at a relatively low dose plus calcium did not reduce the overall incidence of NMSC or melanoma. However, in women with history of NMSC(non-melanoma skin cancer), CaD supplementation reduced melanoma risk, suggesting a potential role for calcium and vitamin D supplements in this high-risk group. Results from this post hoc subgroup analysis should be interpreted with caution but warrant additional investigation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21709199

Quote:Claims of Vit D deficiency in sunny climates.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21336432



Quote:CONCLUSIONS:

The results suggest that hypovitaminosis D is common across all ages, genders and seasons in Israel, a country characterized by a sunny Mediterranean climate. Specific ethnic groups may be at especially high risk.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21348404.1

Quote:patients with chronic kidney disease seem to be at higher risk for the development of hypovitaminosis D
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21195932

Quote:Sunlight improves insulin sensitivity in rats
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21184788

Quote:Overall, these preliminary results indicate that calcium and vitamin D(3) may decrease oxidative DNA damage in the normal human colorectal mucosa, support the hypothesis that 8-OH-dG labeling in colorectal crypts is a treatable oxidative DNA damage biomarker of risk for colorectal neoplasms, and provide support for further investigation of calcium and vitamin D(3) as chemopreventive agents against colorectal neoplasms.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20056649

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(This post was last modified: 07-04-2012 3:07 AM by wiserd.)
07-04-2012 3:06 AM
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Post: #42
RE: What supplements are you taking?
07-04-2012 11:51 PM

(07-03-2012 6:37 PM)as33156 Wrote:  Gotta Love the Germans:

Doctor: Hi As3
Me: Hi doc
Doctor: How are you doing and what have you been up to?
Me: I have been feeling pretty good and im working out now.
Doctor: Oh really? That's great just dont over do it.
Me: I wanted to ask you about the supplements Im taking
Doctor: Sure! What are they?
Me: Creatine, Protein, & something for my joints
Doctor: Do you have a fucking death wish?
Me: No
Doctor: Don't take any of that shit or you'll be back in your hospital bed in no time
Me: Wow you don't even know what type im taking.
Doctor: The names say it all...But let me see them
Me: Here
Doctor: Looks them over, walks over to the rubbish bin, steps on the foot petal and throws the creatine & protein away. Looks at the joint supplement box again and says "I'll take this one"
Me: Hey I paid over 180 dollars for that stuff.
Doctor: A fool and his money are easily departed. We get your results in 6 days. Try not to kill yourself before we find out if your killing yourself.
Me: You really not a people person
Doctor: I didn't come here to make friends. I came here to save your life. Bye!

*snort*

Sounds about right for a German MD.

You are a grown man so I won't say I told you so ...
07-04-2012 11:51 PM
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Post: #43
RE: What supplements are you taking?
07-05-2012 12:22 AM

(07-03-2012 6:37 PM)as33156 Wrote:  Gotta Love the Germans:

Doctor: Hi As3
Me: Hi doc
Doctor: How are you doing and what have you been up to?
Me: I have been feeling pretty good and im working out now.
Doctor: Oh really? That's great just dont over do it.
Me: I wanted to ask you about the supplements Im taking
Doctor: Sure! What are they?
Me: Creatine, Protein, & something for my joints
Doctor: Do you have a fucking death wish?
Me: No
Doctor: Don't take any of that shit or you'll be back in your hospital bed in no time
Me: Wow you don't even know what type im taking.
Doctor: The names say it all...But let me see them
Me: Here
Doctor: Looks them over, walks over to the rubbish bin, steps on the foot petal and throws the creatine & protein away. Looks at the joint supplement box again and says "I'll take this one"
Me: Hey I paid over 180 dollars for that stuff.
Doctor: A fool and his money are easily departed. We get your results in 6 days. Try not to kill yourself before we find out if your killing yourself.
Me: You really not a people person
Doctor: I didn't come here to make friends. I came here to save your life. Bye!

Sounds like hes fuckin insane to me. But if you trust him you should do what he says.

The creatine, I can understand... it causes water retention and can be bad for you if you dont drink enough water to compensate. But I have a hard time finding any fault with protein powder. Generally speaking its just whey protein... unless its like full of sugar or something it should be beneficial especially if you're lifting.



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07-05-2012 12:22 AM
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Post: #44
RE: What supplements are you taking?
07-05-2012 8:32 AM

(07-05-2012 12:22 AM)clide7 Wrote:  Sounds like hes fuckin insane to me. But if you trust him you should do what he says.

The creatine, I can understand... it causes water retention and can be bad for you if you dont drink enough water to compensate. But I have a hard time finding any fault with protein powder. Generally speaking its just whey protein... unless its like full of sugar or something it should be beneficial especially if you're lifting.

I lost a ton of weight with a gastric bypass over 7 years ago - and you have to down a proverbial butt load of protein shakes and supplements to do it or your body scavenges itself. However - I was told on more than one appointment by the nutritionist that the protein powder - taken in large quantities - i.e. - more than 40 grams per day - is actually really hard on the kidneys, liver and gall bladder - and requires you to be drinking copious amounts of water to compensate for processing it. Don't know that it's true in the medical literature - just what I was told by the bariatric nutritionist.

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07-05-2012 8:32 AM
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Post: #45
RE: What supplements are you taking?
07-05-2012 9:38 AM

(07-05-2012 8:32 AM)Shelly B Wrote:  I lost a ton of weight with a gastric bypass over 7 years ago - and you have to down a proverbial butt load of protein shakes and supplements to do it or your body scavenges itself. However - I was told on more than one appointment by the nutritionist that the protein powder - taken in large quantities - i.e. - more than 40 grams per day - is actually really hard on the kidneys, liver and gall bladder - and requires you to be drinking copious amounts of water to compensate for processing it. Don't know that it's true in the medical literature - just what I was told by the bariatric nutritionist.


Mines was 62g per scoop and I was doing 2 scoops a day.

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07-05-2012 9:38 AM
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Post: #46
RE: What supplements are you taking?
07-05-2012 10:46 AM

(07-05-2012 9:38 AM)as33156 Wrote:  Mines was 62g per scoop and I was doing 2 scoops a day.

Well - that could explain the doctor's flip out. The nutritionist had me drinking 62 grams total per day during the weight loss phase to keep my body from scavenging my heart muscle - but she said to offset that amount of protein load - I *had* to be drinking 10 glasses a day - not simply saying I would try - otherwise I could blow out my kidneys, liver, and gall bladder.

I don't know if taking two scoops would mean 20 glasses of water - but between it and the other supplements - you might have been adding pressure to your systems. I don't honestly know enough about protein nutrition and metabolization to know...Unknw

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Shelly B
07-05-2012 10:46 AM
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wiserd
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Post: #47
RE: What supplements are you taking?
07-05-2012 11:03 AM

(07-05-2012 10:46 AM)Shelly B Wrote:  Well - that could explain the doctor's flip out. The nutritionist had me drinking 62 grams total per day during the weight loss phase to keep my body from scavenging my heart muscle - but she said to offset that amount of protein load - I *had* to be drinking 10 glasses a day - not simply saying I would try - otherwise I could blow out my kidneys, liver, and gall bladder.

I don't know if taking two scoops would mean 20 glasses of water - but between it and the other supplements - you might have been adding pressure to your systems. I don't honestly know enough about protein nutrition and metabolization to know...Unknw

Minimization of protein and creatine supplementation is exactly in line with the conventional wisdom, though I've never dug into whatever research is used to support these beliefs. I could understand getting some small amount of an easily digestible protein source right after lifting or something. But protein loading for someone with kidney problems is something a lot of doctors will believe is problematic. I've never checked the literature on this topic, though.

It's interesting that you feel a lot better on the stuff... I'd be curious why that is.

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07-05-2012 11:03 AM
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Post: #48
RE: What supplements are you taking?
07-05-2012 11:42 AM

Thanks for the info Shelly & Wis!

My Journal: http://pherotruth.com/Thread-Nice-guy-to...My-journey

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07-05-2012 11:42 AM
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Post: #49
RE: What supplements are you taking?
07-05-2012 8:46 PM

(07-05-2012 9:38 AM)as33156 Wrote:  Mines was 62g per scoop and I was doing 2 scoops a day.
(07-05-2012 10:46 AM)Shelly B Wrote:  Well - that could explain the doctor's flip out.

Uhhh - YES!

(07-05-2012 10:46 AM)Shelly B Wrote:  The nutritionist had me drinking 62 grams total per day during the weight loss phase to keep my body from scavenging my heart muscle - but she said to offset that amount of protein load - I *had* to be drinking 10 glasses a day - not simply saying I would try - otherwise I could blow out my kidneys, liver, and gall bladder.

Exactly!! And given what As3 has been through i am not sure even the additional water load would help enough.

(07-05-2012 11:03 AM)wiserd Wrote:  Minimization of protein and creatine supplementation is exactly in line with the conventional wisdom, though I've never dug into whatever research is used to support these beliefs. I could understand getting some small amount of an easily digestible protein source right after lifting or something. But protein loading for someone with kidney problems is something a lot of doctors will believe is problematic. I've never checked the literature on this topic, though.

Yes - it is very much conventional wisdom.

Here is an interesting article:
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJ...Discussion

But be careful how you read it.

I did find this As3:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/706043

But be sure to talk it over with that doctor before you try it. It may not really be applicable.
07-05-2012 8:46 PM
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Post: #50
RE: What supplements are you taking?
07-05-2012 9:02 PM

(07-05-2012 8:46 PM)Bosshank Wrote:  
(07-05-2012 10:46 AM)Shelly B Wrote:  Well - that could explain the doctor's flip out.

Uhhh - YES!

(07-05-2012 10:46 AM)Shelly B Wrote:  The nutritionist had me drinking 62 grams total per day during the weight loss phase to keep my body from scavenging my heart muscle - but she said to offset that amount of protein load - I *had* to be drinking 10 glasses a day - not simply saying I would try - otherwise I could blow out my kidneys, liver, and gall bladder.

Exactly!! And given what As3 has been through i am not sure even the additional water load would help enough.


Yes - it is very much conventional wisdom.

Here is an interesting article:
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJ...Discussion

But be careful how you read it.

I did find this As3:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/706043

But be sure to talk it over with that doctor before you try it. It may not really be applicable.


Thanks a lot for the information. I think I'm going to go back on cenegnics as its just hgh and the doctor said if done right it could be very beneficial.

My Journal: http://pherotruth.com/Thread-Nice-guy-to...My-journey

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07-05-2012 9:02 PM
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