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Top Products - A Serious Issue
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RTBoss
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Post: #11
RE: Top Products - A Serious Issue
04-26-2015 6:33 PM

(04-26-2015 6:24 PM)haggy Wrote:  Is SOB good for day use? Not many reviews on this phero.

If I didn't have 'more products I'd like to test, I'd wear SOB all day every day, everywhere.

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04-26-2015 6:33 PM
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D'man
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Post: #12
RE: Top Products - A Serious Issue
04-26-2015 6:57 PM

Is Panty Scorcher even an obtainable product still on the market?
04-26-2015 6:57 PM
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theLaw
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RE: Top Products - A Serious Issue
04-26-2015 7:10 PM

(04-26-2015 6:57 PM)D'man Wrote:  Is Panty Scorcher even an obtainable product still on the market?

Not unless you own a DaLorean and a flux capacitor

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04-26-2015 7:10 PM
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kimosabe
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RE: Top Products - A Serious Issue
04-26-2015 7:12 PM

We kinda sorta already had this conversation in one of your earliest threads (Mones V Placebo). I've said what I need to say on that thread.

However, I'd like to address the points that you've brought up in this thread:
(04-26-2015 11:58 AM)theLaw Wrote:  This is where I take issue with the community. Everyone's Top 5 list is almost completely different, which means either :

a) Mone mixes, in their current form, are mostly placebo with forums to hype expensive snake oil (natural evolution-not any conspiracy)

b) Members aren't actually fully testing products, but just haphazardly using products with no measurable consistency-hence the "no hits" situation from reliable mixes. Good products-just lack of proper application.

c) A fundamental flaw in the idea of using mones regarding diffusion/body chemistry/mixing practices/etc.

d) A mixture of the above issues, with some members actually understanding these products, but get lost in the noise

a) We know this to be false from numerous tests and personal testimony. If personal testimony is to be disregarded, we might as well do away with the legal system as it is today, which relies heavily on testimony to convict or acquit. Not to mention plenty of RELIGIOUS books.

b) I know personally that a number of us on here have gone blue in our faces reminding n00bs NOT to run combos before understanding each product thoroughly. When I say thoroughly, I mean testing methodology like this:
(11-02-2014 6:54 PM)kimosabe Wrote:  No idea, since I've never used any of those products. Give them a go and test, then report back with your findings. Every field report in here is valuable, including yours.

Try this test methodology:

(First, for TA)
Week 1: 2 drops TA per day (test for results)
Week 2: 3 drops TA per day (compare results, test for OD)
etc.

Keep increasing by 1 drop each week until you OD. Then you'll know your sweetspot for TA.

Keep a record of your findings. You may find, for example, that 3 drops gives you good results and 4 drops gives you the same results without OD, but 5 drops is OD. That means your sweetspot is 3 drops, not 4.

Edit: If, during your testing, you find that X drops on Day 1 gives you good results but the same X drops on Day 2 gives you an OD-type reaction from others, that means that the product is building up on your skin instead of breaking down overnight.

In that case, do X-1 drops on Day 3 and test for results. Do X drops on Day 4, see if you OD. You may have to vary your dosages depending on how each product reacts with your body chemistry.


Then, do the same for Evolve, starting at 1 drop of oil/1 spray as recommended on PXS Website. You'll find your sweetspots for Evolve.

Then do a combo of the sweetspots of both products and fine-tune from there.

or like this:
(11-19-2014 12:23 AM)kimosabe Wrote:  ...
2. It's generally held that the older a man grows, the less testosterone he produces. At your age, you should easily be able to handle 8 drops of Wolf or even more. Usually I'd suggest starting with a lower dose and building up, but for you, I'm gonna suggest something different - balls-to-the-wall testing:
- Start at 12 drops (equivalent to 2 sprays), test for a week, observe the difference in how others respond to you. Keep a journal of your findings.
- Tweak the dosage the next week and test again. If others responded to you distantly or stand-offishly the previous week, reduce by 2 drops and test again. Otherwise, increase 2 drops and test.
- Keep doing this until you find the point of diminishing returns vis-a-vis positive responses from others, back off 1-2 drops from where you are at that point in time according to your observations in your journal, and that's your sweet spot.
...

c) Body chemistry, skin type and surface skin temperature have A LOT to do with diffusion and efficacy of mones.

Anyone who claims otherwise doesn't understand that neither everyone buys BMWs nor that not all of those who buy BMWs feel the same way about the brand.

It's like this - person A can rock AM, for example, at 3 sprays, while person B overdoses at just one spray and has to resort to using half sprays. Does this mean AM is the wrong mone for B? Heck no! B simply has to use less of it to achieve similar effects to A.

Notice how I used the word "similar" and not "same."

This is simply because personality, character and attitude also play a big part in the effects a mone has on others vis-a-vis different wearers.

Everyone's Top-5 lists WILL be different. Here's my top-5 list of car brands (non-supercar):

1. SAAB
2. Alfa Romeo
3. Subaru
4. BMW
5. Mercedes Benz

See how a "dead brand" heads that list? Doesn't make me wrong and others right. Friends

ME = Awesome
ME(Mones) = Awesome(Quicker)
ME = Awesome

Phero Tool Chest
Pheromone Treasures
Desi, Auraental, AT, CPT, THU, EFZ, GOA, AOA, TS*, Z69*
Apex Pheromones
Core, Titan, Core V2*
Liquid Alchemy Labs
Wolf, DP, A4A, OD*
PheromoneDiskont.com(closed)
AM
Love Scent
A314,Chikara, scented SOE, old NPA, W.A.G.G-N (all '09 - '10 vintage)
Vero Labs
LT ('09 vintage)

Key
used up & will re-purchase
*sample
^in shipment
not re-purchased/swapped
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2015 7:24 PM by kimosabe.)
04-26-2015 7:12 PM
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D'man
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Post: #15
RE: Top Products - A Serious Issue
04-26-2015 7:24 PM

(04-26-2015 7:10 PM)theLaw Wrote:  Not unless you own a DaLorean and a flux capacitor

The DeLorean I've got. A working Flux cap is still out out the question!
04-26-2015 7:24 PM
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theLaw
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Post: #16
RE: Top Products - A Serious Issue
04-26-2015 7:50 PM

(04-26-2015 7:12 PM)kimosabe Wrote:  We kinda sorta already had this conversation in one of your earliest threads (Mones V Placebo). I've said what I need to say on that thread.

However, I'd like to address the points that you've brought up in this thread:
a) We know this to be false from numerous tests and personal testimony. If personal testimony is to be disregarded, we might as well do away with the legal system as it is today, which relies heavily on testimony to convict or acquit. Not to mention plenty of RELIGIOUS books.

b) I know personally that a number of us on here have gone blue in our faces reminding n00bs NOT to run combos before understanding each product thoroughly. When I say thoroughly, I mean testing methodology like this:
(11-02-2014 6:54 PM)kimosabe Wrote:  No idea, since I've never used any of those products. Give them a go and test, then report back with your findings. Every field report in here is valuable, including yours.

Try this test methodology:

(First, for TA)
Week 1: 2 drops TA per day (test for results)
Week 2: 3 drops TA per day (compare results, test for OD)
etc.

Keep increasing by 1 drop each week until you OD. Then you'll know your sweetspot for TA.

Keep a record of your findings. You may find, for example, that 3 drops gives you good results and 4 drops gives you the same results without OD, but 5 drops is OD. That means your sweetspot is 3 drops, not 4.

Edit: If, during your testing, you find that X drops on Day 1 gives you good results but the same X drops on Day 2 gives you an OD-type reaction from others, that means that the product is building up on your skin instead of breaking down overnight.

In that case, do X-1 drops on Day 3 and test for results. Do X drops on Day 4, see if you OD. You may have to vary your dosages depending on how each product reacts with your body chemistry.


Then, do the same for Evolve, starting at 1 drop of oil/1 spray as recommended on PXS Website. You'll find your sweetspots for Evolve.

Then do a combo of the sweetspots of both products and fine-tune from there.
or like this:
(11-19-2014 12:23 AM)kimosabe Wrote:  ...
2. It's generally held that the older a man grows, the less testosterone he produces. At your age, you should easily be able to handle 8 drops of Wolf or even more. Usually I'd suggest starting with a lower dose and building up, but for you, I'm gonna suggest something different - balls-to-the-wall testing:
- Start at 12 drops (equivalent to 2 sprays), test for a week, observe the difference in how others respond to you. Keep a journal of your findings.
- Tweak the dosage the next week and test again. If others responded to you distantly or stand-offishly the previous week, reduce by 2 drops and test again. Otherwise, increase 2 drops and test.
- Keep doing this until you find the point of diminishing returns vis-a-vis positive responses from others, back off 1-2 drops from where you are at that point in time according to your observations in your journal, and that's your sweet spot.
...

c) Body chemistry, skin type and surface skin temperature have A LOT to do with diffusion and efficacy of mones.

Anyone who claims otherwise doesn't understand that neither everyone buys BMWs nor that not all of those who buy BMWs feel the same way about the brand.

It's like this - person A can rock AM, for example, at 3 sprays, while person B overdoses at just one spray and has to resort to using half sprays. Does this mean AM is the wrong mone for B? Heck no! B simply has to use less of it to achieve similar effects to A.

Notice how I used the word "similar" and not "same."

This is simply because personality, character and attitude also play a big part in the effects a mone has on others vis-a-vis different wearers.

Everyone's Top-5 lists WILL be different. Here's my top-5 list of car brands (non-supercar):

1. SAAB
2. Alfa Romeo
3. Subaru
4. BMW
5. Mercedes Benz

See how a "dead brand" heads that list? Doesn't make me wrong and others right. Friends

Thanks Kimosabe,

I would only take issue with one of your statements (may just be a clarification) :

"a) We know this to be false from numerous tests"

I am assuming that you are referring to pier-reviewed scientific testing on pheromones. The problem is that with these products we are not just talking about pheromones, but other unlisted chemicals as well. This is essentially the same problem with a substance like methamphetamine. Lab-grade pure Meth is not the same as the street drug, as we have no idea what is in the street drug (same problem we're currently having with "bath salts"). So we can't actually make any scientific claims about any vendor's products, as we don't know the actual ingredients. That leaves us with anecdotal experiences, which of course, is not science by any stretch. Scientific research on gluten is currently dealing with this same problem; correlation, but not causation.

This is essentially what makes these chemicals so vulnerable to scrutiny; hopefully forums like this can serve as a bridge until we have more legit scientific testing in the future.

Also, as for dosage, if 1/2 a spray is the legit sweet spot for some people, then the vendors need to step up their game with their application tools to protect against OD. Not necessarily their job, but just good business. Smile

Signatures are forum-cancer.Scout
04-26-2015 7:50 PM
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kimosabe
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Post: #17
RE: Top Products - A Serious Issue
04-26-2015 8:01 PM

(04-26-2015 7:50 PM)theLaw Wrote:  Thanks Kimosabe,

I would only take issue with one of your statements (may just be a clarification) :

"a) We know this to be false from numerous tests"

I am assuming that you are referring to pier-reviewed scientific testing on pheromones. The problem is that with these products we are not just talking about pheromones, but other unlisted chemicals as well. This is essentially the same problem with a substance like methamphetamine. Lab-grade pure Meth is not the same as the street drug, as we have no idea what is in the street drug (same problem we're currently having with "bath salts"). So we can't actually make any scientific claims about any vendor's products, as we don't know the actual ingredients. That leaves us with anecdotal experiences, which of course, is not science by any stretch. Scientific research on gluten is currently dealing with this same problem; correlation, but not causation.

This is essentially what makes these chemicals so vulnerable to scrutiny; hopefully forums like this can serve as a bridge until we have more legit scientific testing in the future.

Also, as for dosage, if 1/2 a spray is the legit sweet spot for some people, then the vendors need to step up their game with their application tools to protect against OD. Not necessarily their job, but just good business. Smile

You're welcome theLaw.

Peer-reviewed? Synthetic pheromones that are used the way that we use them? Seriously? Not until they gain acceptance in the same way that bodybuilding supps are accepted. Until then, they will remain an "underground" industry with anecdotal evidence from users. Could some of these stories be made up? Sure. All of them made up? Doubtful.

Then comes the proprietary formulae that manufacturers use. Do I like it? Nope. Do I understand why they do it? Yep - to protect their formulae, lest everyone and their grandmothers replicate said products and run them out of business. It is what it is. That said, I sincerely hope that manufacturers know better than to spike their products with known drugs and/or harmful substances, like what happened in the bodybuilding industry.

As far as your dosage comment is concerned, re-read what I wrote earlier in point ( c ). A half-spray that works for me may not do jack-shit for you simply because OUR BODY CHEMISTRYS ARE DIFFERENT. You cannot expect manufacturers to do anything to resolve that variable. Dosages are offered as guidelines and it us up to us, the wearers, to determine what works for us. Hence my diatribe in point (b) above.

ME = Awesome
ME(Mones) = Awesome(Quicker)
ME = Awesome

Phero Tool Chest
Pheromone Treasures
Desi, Auraental, AT, CPT, THU, EFZ, GOA, AOA, TS*, Z69*
Apex Pheromones
Core, Titan, Core V2*
Liquid Alchemy Labs
Wolf, DP, A4A, OD*
PheromoneDiskont.com(closed)
AM
Love Scent
A314,Chikara, scented SOE, old NPA, W.A.G.G-N (all '09 - '10 vintage)
Vero Labs
LT ('09 vintage)

Key
used up & will re-purchase
*sample
^in shipment
not re-purchased/swapped
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2015 8:08 PM by kimosabe.)
04-26-2015 8:01 PM
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theLaw
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Post: #18
RE: Top Products - A Serious Issue
04-26-2015 8:15 PM

(04-26-2015 8:01 PM)kimosabe Wrote:  You're welcome theLaw.

Peer-reviewed? Synthetic pheromones that are used the way that we use them? Seriously? Not until they gain acceptance in the same way that bodybuilding supps are accepted. Until then, they will remain an "underground" industry with anecdotal evidence from users. Could some of these stories be made up? Sure. All of them made up? Doubtful.

Then comes the proprietary formulae that manufacturers use. Do I like it? Nope. Do I understand why they do it? Yep - to protect their formulae, lest everyone and their grandmothers replicate said products and run them out of business. It is what it is. That said, I sincerely hope that manufacturers know better than to spike their products with known drugs and/or harmful substances, like what happened in the bodybuilding industry.

As far as your dosage comment is concerned, re-read what I wrote earlier in point ( c ). A half-spray that works for me may not do jack-shit for you simply because OUR BODY CHEMISTRYS ARE DIFFERENT. You cannot expect manufacturers to do anything to resolve that variable. Dosages are offered as guidelines and it us up to us, the wearers, to determine what works for us. Hence my diatribe in point (b) above.


Yeah-my peer-reviewed comment is just wishful thinking, as we need to cure cancer first. There is always the private-testing option. Anyone got a few million bucks?Mrgreen

About the dosage, like I said, it's not the vendor's responsibility, but just good business. More precision can only help product effectiveness and consistency.

Signatures are forum-cancer.Scout
04-26-2015 8:15 PM
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jjs1234
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Post: #19
RE: Top Products - A Serious Issue
04-26-2015 8:23 PM

I agree with OP.

I may be a newbie here but please read my response before replying.


Read this with an open mind....



So most of us here are not noobs. Meaning those that have found use for pheromones have stuck on this forum. There would be NO use to being on this forum and making posts (aka wasting time) if they did not work for you.

Now it seems to be that each pheromone mixture (unless it is 100% some type) works differently for everyone. (NOTE: That the only variable for 100% mixes is how much you apply- and again that is different for everyone)


SO WHAT THIS FORUM NEEDS IS CONSISTENCY and TRANSPARENCY.... Which is a hard thing to do. Please read on...


I propose something and I hope that the forum ADMIN reads this:


The objective of this site is not only to give advice but to be a place where users (noobs and experienced users alike) can come together and WITH CONFIDENCE buy a pheromone that will work (as in "you know it will work" you just dont know "how much to apply").

I am an analytical thinker. Therefore, this forum needs a tool in which is sort of like a search tool. Not the TYPICAL search tool. I am talking when A USER POSTS A REVIEW, he/she ADDS all the things (without giving your anonymity away) like
  • Height
  • Weight
  • Race
  • AGE
  • What you eat (more descriptive than Healthy/Non-healthy)
  • How ACTIVE you are (workout/run/swim) etc.
  • When was the last time you showered ect. (this matters if your body produces its own mones)...
  • The TYPE of MOOD you were in when you applied/got a certain reaction etc. (this matters too!!!)
  • Type of person who reacted to the mones
  • Type of Mones/Name
  • Was it a Sexual/Status/Beta/Dominant etc. Type of Pheromon
  • Pheromone name
  • The same bullet points above of the person you interacted with who HAD the reaction to the mones.

At first glance you may think "the poster can just mention this." This is true. HOWEVER, sorting through hundreds and hundreds of threads/posts for someone who is similar in body type/weight/height etc. is very very time consuming- and most do not give these details. Listing the ABOVE DETAILS would not compromise Anonymity.


Please create a simple PHP or FORM based function. A tool where people/users can list these above VARIABLES and then a link to a THREAD that they created.

**Lastly I was thinking "after you add -What type of pheromone you were using (name, type (dominant/sexual etc.) you can add a interaction type- as in the reaction, and the type of people and number of who reacted (Encounter type [K-close, excessive talking, etc.], how long after original application etc.). Nothing too complicated.

I believe that this WOULD HELP IMMENSELY. I know that some users on here could do a simple form function that gets added to a database. I would be willing to contribute some $$ or Pheromones to a user that could build this.

Think of how easy our life has become because of Google. They organized the web into a simple "search function." I ask this to be added.

And YES the current search function in the forum is INADEQUATELY suited for this purpose.


We are all LOOKING for CONGRUENCE I believe. And while I know a bit about Python, I do not think it can be adapted to this purpose.

I dont want to make this post too long or too confusing, but after thinking about it and reading the replies- A user above commented that "this topic comes up now and then."

Well then lets kill the source. Add a function where users can add variables and their height/weight/race etc. so that other people have an idea how much to add to their body/ and if this type of pheromone is good to them.





In conclusion, I think that something like this would not be necessary if every pheromone on the market was sold as a 100% derivative (as in 100% androstadienone). BUT since most are sold as MIXES, I think something like this would BENEFIT the community and help BEGINNING users as well as EXPERIENCED users find something that has a much higher chance of working in a particular situation.

Thanks for reading...

and well... I hope you know or know who can code a function like this into the forum!

Thanks Smile
04-26-2015 8:23 PM
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kimosabe
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Post: #20
RE: Top Products - A Serious Issue
04-26-2015 8:31 PM

(04-26-2015 8:23 PM)jjs1234 Wrote:  ...
SO WHAT THIS FORUM NEEDS IS CONSISTENCY and TRANSPARENCY.... Which is a hard thing to do. Please read on...


I propose something and I hope that the forum ADMIN reads this:


...Therefore, this forum needs a tool in which is sort of like a search tool. Not the TYPICAL search tool. I am talking when A USER POSTS A REVIEW, he/she ADDS all the things (without giving your anonymity away) like
  • Height
  • Weight
  • Race
  • AGE
  • What you eat (more descriptive than Healthy/Non-healthy)
  • How ACTIVE you are (workout/run/swim) etc.
  • When was the last time you showered ect. (this matters if your body produces its own mones)...
  • The TYPE of MOOD you were in when you applied/got a certain reaction etc. (this matters too!!!)
  • Type of person who reacted to the mones
  • Type of Mones/Name
  • Was it a Sexual/Status/Beta/Dominant etc. Type of Pheromon
  • Pheromone name
  • The same bullet points above of the person you interacted with who HAD the reaction to the mones.

...

Please create a simple PHP or FORM based function. A tool where people/users can list these above VARIABLES and then a link to a THREAD that they created.

...

I like this idea. An area in the user's profile where this information can be filled out, and then in posts when a user's name is moused-over, pops up that info.

This may not fully account for each individual's natural pheromonal composition (body chemistry) but at least it would give others a rough idea.

ME = Awesome
ME(Mones) = Awesome(Quicker)
ME = Awesome

Phero Tool Chest
Pheromone Treasures
Desi, Auraental, AT, CPT, THU, EFZ, GOA, AOA, TS*, Z69*
Apex Pheromones
Core, Titan, Core V2*
Liquid Alchemy Labs
Wolf, DP, A4A, OD*
PheromoneDiskont.com(closed)
AM
Love Scent
A314,Chikara, scented SOE, old NPA, W.A.G.G-N (all '09 - '10 vintage)
Vero Labs
LT ('09 vintage)

Key
used up & will re-purchase
*sample
^in shipment
not re-purchased/swapped
04-26-2015 8:31 PM
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