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The Next Generation . . .
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dexter
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Post: #11
RE: The Next Generation . . .
02-23-2012 1:52 PM

Chris,
How did you pick diethylstilbestrol and estradiol?
What relationship do they have?
I remember posting about diethylstilbestrol when I was correcting KOALA about saying Methoxyestratetraenone was bad, when he mistakenly used info on diethylstilbestrol. diethylstilbestrol and Methoxyestratetraenone have the same atoms, just arranged differently.

Just wondering what relationship you found between them, because of the "Red Flag" with diethylstilbestrol.
OK,OK, I looked it up myself and they are related, so I posted a bunch of stuff below. But looking at the images, the 2 Molecules look very different, even if they are related.

C18H20O2 is for both DES & Methoxyestratetraenone .

CAS#56-53-1 for Diethylstilbestrol,
aka 4,4'-(3E)-hex-3-ene-3,4-diyldiphenol

I can't find the CAS# of Methoxyestratetraenone , but it is called:
Methoxyestratetraenone
aka Estratetraenone Methyl Ether
aka 1, 3, 5(10), 7-Estratetraen-3-ol-17-one methyl ether
and is an Equilin analog derivative.

But KoalaFruit did say this, which was actually about diethylstilbestrol.
In my enthousiasm I was looking up information about Methoxyestratetraenone so I typed in the formula in google (C18H20O2) and I stumbled upon this:a synthetic nonsteroid with the properties of estrogen; formerly used to treat menstrual problems but was found to be associated with vaginal cancers in the daughters of women so treated during pregnancy[/i] On this page: http://www.memidex.com/c18h20o2 That doesn't sound too positive, does it? Or did those people eat the Meo-ests? I don't want to be negative, but also wanted to share this with you.

Again, the above statement was wrong, and they thought people were taking Methoxyestratetraenone as a medicine, nobody was taking Methoxyestratetraenone , they were taking diethylstilbestrol.

from http://www.caymanchem.com/app/template/P...g/10006876
Diethylstilbestrol (CAS 56-53-1)
[Image: 10006876.png]

Description
Diethylstilbestrol (DES) is a synthetic estrogen receptor agonist that was prescribed to pregnant women in the late 1930s. It was banned in 1971 because of possible links to increased risk of breast cancer in mothers along with congenital abnormalities and increased risk of cancer in offspring.1 [color]DES is structurally related to, and is as potent as, estradiol in most assays, with a longer half-life[/color]. It has a relative binding affinity to sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) of 0.2 compared to estradiol which has a relative binding affinity of 100. A concentration of 20 µM DES, displaces 30 ± 13% of 3H-estradiol from SHBG in serum.
Formal Name 4,​4'[(1E)-​1,​2-​diethyl-​1,​2-​ethenediyl]bis-​phenol

from http://www.caymanchem.com/app/template/P...15B8D4E59E
Estradiol
Cayman Chemical Item Number 10006315
[Image: 10006315.png]
17β-Oestradiol; 17β-Estradiol; β-Estradiol (CAS 50-28-2)
Estradiol (CAS 50-28-2)

Description
Estrogens direct the development of the female genotype in embryogenesis and at puberty. Estradiol is the major estrogen secreted by the premenopausal ovary. It is synthesized from testosterone primarily in the ovarian granulosa cells and placenta, but small amounts can be produced in the adrenal gland.1,2 Plasma estradiol levels increase gradually between days 1-7 of the menstrual cycle followed by a sharp increase to a peak value of about 300 pg/ml on day 12, just prior to ovulation.
Synonyms:
17β-Oestradiol
17β-Estradiol
β-Estradiol

Formal Name estra-​1,​3,​5(10)-​triene-​3,​17β-​diol
02-23-2012 1:52 PM
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dexter
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Post: #12
RE: The Next Generation . . .
02-24-2012 3:56 PM

OK,OK,
I'm just now realizing my mistake from the last post.
You aren't talking about a molecule halfway between Estradiol and Diethystilbestrol.

You are talking about a partial like SK-6,7,15[I don't know what it is] – which is derived from Androstadienone.
02-24-2012 3:56 PM
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Post: #13
RE: The Next Generation . . .
02-24-2012 8:52 PM

(02-24-2012 3:56 PM)dexter Wrote:  OK,OK,
I'm just now realizing my mistake from the last post.
You aren't talking about a molecule halfway between Estradiol and Diethystilbestrol.

You are talking about a partial like SK-6,7,15[I don't know what it is] – which is derived from Androstadienone.

Yes exactly.. The fact that Diethystilbestrol fits into estrogen receptors means that certain parts of the molecule are unnecessary to achieve the desired effect.

About how Diethystilbestrol looks nothing like estradiol: ahhh, but it does! Remember that in real life, these compounds are floating in three dimensions. Take a compound and rotate it a different way than you are expecting to see it, and it looks like something completely different.

Dex, take the structure of Diethystilbestrol, and flip it up-side down.. Then change the positioning of the end-groups, just like they also change from side to side naturally (isometric transformation) in the physical world.

now look at at Diethystilbestrol again from a different perspective (bottom right), and compate to estradiol.

Now do they look similar? ;)

[Image: demonstration.jpg]

Chris @ Alpha
02-24-2012 8:52 PM
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Post: #14
RE: The Next Generation . . .
02-24-2012 9:08 PM

Jesus! Trying to catch up with all this!

[Image: HomerThinking.png]

If there's more volatility, i'm in. Chris is at another level already. Great initiavtive. Will help if i can.

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02-24-2012 9:08 PM
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Post: #15
RE: The Next Generation . . .
02-24-2012 9:09 PM

(02-24-2012 3:56 PM)dexter Wrote:  You are talking about a partial like SK-6,7,15[I don't know what it is] – which is derived from Androstadienone.

Again, right on point...

Diethystilbestrol shows us that the arrangement of center parts of the molecule are the least important for the basic steroidal structure.

with SK-6,7,15, I am looking to remove parts of the androstadienone molecule which are not necessary for the compound to activate the same receptor. In other words, change the key (pheromone molecule) to remove excess weight, while still allowing it to open the same lock (pheromone receptor).

In the process of reducing weight, volatility will be greatly enhanced.

I believe that needed parts of the androstadienone molecule which are necessary to activate the pheromone receptor, are shown in the sketch of SK,6,7,15.

SK-6,7,15 is the androstadienone molecule simplified as much as possible to enhance volatility, while retaining the same essential shape to activate the same receptors.

Cheers,

~ Chris
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2012 9:14 PM by Alpha Dream.)
02-24-2012 9:09 PM
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Post: #16
RE: The Next Generation . . .
02-24-2012 10:55 PM

Git'er'done, I am willing to be a test subject for you.

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02-24-2012 10:55 PM
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dexter
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Post: #17
RE: The Next Generation . . .
02-29-2012 6:43 PM

Because of the symmetry of DES... and this thread.
I thought about this while reading a post today on Love Scent forum.

Realm uses Benzophenone-2
[aka Bis(2,4-dihydroxyphenyl)methanone,
Uvinol D-50,
Uvinul D-50,
131-55-5, Methanone, bis(2,4-dihydroxyphenyl)-
2,2',4,4'-tetrahydroxybenzophenone]
Molecular Formula: C13 H10 O5
Molecular Weight: 246.2155

But wait there's more, look at the symmetry of this molecule (it isn't really symmetric, because of the 3D shape), having very similar "KEYS" on both ends, like DES.
[Image: imgsrv.fcgi?t=l&cid=8571]
The 2 hydroxyl (-OH) groups on either end look a little like Calcitriol (aka 1,25-dihydroxycholecalciferol or 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D3, the hormonally active form of vitamin D)

I thought that Vit D was neat for this reason, some species, like birds, don't have sunlight on their skin, so they excrete Vit D Precursors from there skin, they get on the feathers, then the birds have to get the Vit D back in their bodies after the sun changes it to Vit D. So they will lick it off the feathers and digest it.

I'm guessing there is alot of "GROOMING & PREENING" done in the animal kingdom from this sort of PHEROMONE reaction. Not a breeding reaction where the signal is "Mount and Impregnate" but "Lick ME, I'm Good For You"

How many times do we see those dumb monkeys on the discovery channel grooming each other or animals licking each other? It may not be for hygiene, It may be for nutrition, and the Vit D (or whatever of the many Vit D forms) on the skin is a chemical signal saying "Lick Me".

"If you could bottle "Lick Me" I think I would buy some. I think it should be called
"INSTANT LICK ME DEX" named after me of course.
It should also have no reference on the bottle to AD's P102, or any other hunger craving associated molecule that is undisclosed.

dexter
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." -Jesus, Matthew 10:34
AD-Glace, Certo, DHEAS, single mols
AD-a314,P74,5,6,8,9,P80,1,3,P93,5,6,7,P100,​1,2,3,4,9,12,23,25,IFM,
IG,IH,IJ,IO,IS,ISA,ISB,TUTH,TAA,C,F,H,K,​L,NONE,ANOL,AMMO,MX297,391-5UF
LS-LIQTRUST,NOL,NONE,RONE,A1,PERCEPTION,AE,​SOE
P7-ATJ,FTL,DG!,MAP,GG,PURSUIT,SB,TJ
TP-TLOVE,EST,MEO-EST,TJERK,TALPHA,A1,ATRIONE,COPS
HM-ETRIONE
HOMEBREW-D3,DHEA,PEA,ETRIONE,NENO,MEL
02-29-2012 6:43 PM
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Post: #18
RE: The Next Generation . . .
03-11-2012 11:01 PM

(02-29-2012 6:43 PM)dexter Wrote:  I'm guessing there is alot of "GROOMING & PREENING" done in the animal kingdom from this sort of PHEROMONE reaction. Not a breeding reaction where the signal is "Mount and Impregnate" but "Lick ME, I'm Good For You"

How many times do we see those dumb monkeys on the discovery channel grooming each other or animals licking each other? It may not be for hygiene, It may be for nutrition, and the Vit D (or whatever of the many Vit D forms) on the skin is a chemical signal saying "Lick Me".

"If you could bottle "Lick Me" I think I would buy some. I think it should be called
"INSTANT LICK ME DEX" named after me of course.
It should also have no reference on the bottle to AD's P102, or any other hunger craving associated molecule that is undisclosed.

Makes ya wonder if P102 is one of the said "grooming molecules," and if that could lead to the discovery of the name of P102. I don't know about you guys, but of the few uses I got out of my freebie togo back in the day, kino (and tbh grooming type kino at that) was certainly increased...

I'd love to know if you ever find out the name to that molecule for sure... or for that matter even manage to sell some unnamed molecule, but at least keep it in good stock and sell it for a half decent price...

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03-11-2012 11:01 PM
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Post: #19
RE: The Next Generation . . .
03-12-2012 1:15 AM

Omg.
I've got that friend, who chose chemistry as his hobby. It's totally crazy what he can do at home, for example explosive compound which are used to build plastic explosives.
However, Chris, your work is way above this. If there are mones with such a range, I'd be glad to test them :-)

greets

alex

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03-12-2012 1:15 AM
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Post: #20
RE: The Next Generation . . .
03-12-2012 6:19 AM

(03-12-2012 1:15 AM)captain_alex Wrote:  Omg.
I've got that friend, who chose chemistry as his hobby. It's totally crazy what he can do at home, for example explosive compound which are used to build plastic explosives.
However, Chris, your work is way above this. If there are mones with such a range, I'd be glad to test them :-)

greets

alex

Hey!

How much for a brick of RDX?
Mrgreen

Fly
03-12-2012 6:19 AM
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