Any good chem lab can take a liquid and tell you exactly what's in it. Every molecule has a unique fingerprint on a mass spectrogram. Health supplements are required to do this by law. You would be amazed at what contaminants are coming with some of the ingredients.

Often there will be too much of a certain ingredient (a mis-measurement) enough to bring it to toxic levels. Hence they have the ability to measure ratios of products.

I could'nt be bothered to do this with every product myself that I ingest or put on my skin. I don't really care to know what's in the putatives other than that they are safe and I have to trust what AD is selling me.

With all the variations in the consistencies of the mixes and I would say some P's too, that AD doesn't know exactly what they may be getting from China et al. I have had the same mixes in the past that have worked differently. I don't believe AD would purposely change the mix and sell it to me under the exact same name for that would be unethical.

The same would go for any product one has ordered and then re-ordered and it was different.

(04-11-2012 6:51 PM)SteveO Wrote:  I would not be a part of that ever. Sorry GA, but I don't feel that is at all ethical.

I've barely ever used putatives, but people all over this board complain about them being out of stock, or how great this one is. kinda annoying. Really I wanted stress.that they can be identified. The offer was strictly scientifical. I didn't look at it from an unethical stand point, or
think about the effects to A.D when I wrote it. However, some have been researched enough that A.D should release a few names, and then offer them.
Give a little extra back to the scientific community

The offer is now off the table.

Lets try this, place ourselves in AD's shoes and we place P's as never again in stock. Think of all the reasons that you may want to do that.

1. really out of stock. FD spin> Why so rare? How did you discover this and want to use it as a pheromone?

2. out of stock. FD spin> a ploy to generate excitement and possibly a marketing ploy? This is possible but leave it to Apple. I'm waiting for my ipad 3 to ship, it's out of stock??? come on guys. Anyways AD, build a good product and make it part of the regular poducts. Also possible is that sales of mx297,301 etc put other sales out of favour. mx297 and 301? some A314 and really who needs the rest.

3. out of stock permanently... FD spin> possible a rogue chemical that should not be applied on the human body. If you were a company testing different molecules on your subjects then using the real names of the chemicals you are inviting legalities. Safer to use P's and not reveal the compounds to the public.I'll let you decide on the ethics of this.

4. Hard to get molecule....FD spin. Could be so common everyone could get their hands on it. Milk your cat? P83 could be, and probably is some very common chemical. Revealing it's identity would cease it's sales.

let me give you an example. I keep salt water tropical fish and corals and had an outbreak of anipstasia anemones in a tank. These are pests anemones that ting your fish and 100's in the tank, they are ugly.
I found a product called 'Joe's Juice" pisses me off because my name is Joe! You take a lond syringe and squirt some of this on them and it kills them. I't the only way (or a copper band butterfly fish that eats them). 1 oz costs $15. Turns out it's just sodium hydroxide that you an but for a few bucks per pound.



FD

(04-11-2012 9:49 PM)Grape Ape Wrote:  I've barely ever used putatives, but people all over this board complain about them being out of stock, or how great this one is. kinda annoying. Really I wanted stress.that they can be identified. The offer was strictly scientifical. I didn't look at it from an unethical stand point, or
think about the effects to A.D when I wrote it. However, some have been researched enough that A.D should release a few names, and then offer them.
Give a little extra back to the scientific community

The offer is now off the table.

Don't feel guilty. I'm not interested in the offer but we live in free countries and everyone has the right to know what they are putting in/on their bodies. Any question regarding ethics on this would not stand up in any court of law! You have the right to know bottom line.

But then again... you really think there are 14 herbs and spices in Kernal Sanders delicious Kentucky Fried Chicken as advertised? Herbs are plant matter, ever look close and see any herbs? Do you know that the Kernal had been spotted in his back yard 20 years ago mixing salt,pepper and msg to make his delicious seasoning.

If you really want to know what's in it you have to do it yourself....
If you feel that msg poisons your body and you asked the Kernal if it was there what would the answer be? If you decided to test it your self should you feel quilty or feel you are breaching an ethical code? I think not.

I see in my line of work ethical codes being breached every day just to help the bottom line. I hate it hence my passion.

later... I want to sleep early tonight..

FD

Agreed. There is no ethical problem with wanting to know what you're exposing yourself to, or with freeing yourself to obtain it on the open market.

However, I think a pretty good argument can be made that it is unethical to sell bioactive compounds for human use without identifying them.

Of course you have every right NOT to buy coca-cola because of its secret formula. Is it really unethical that coke doesn't reveal its formula? So then I guess you don't go to the supermarket and eat any food that you do not grow yourself. After all Monsanto is dead set against you knowing that store bought tomatoes contain the DNA from the Flounder fish to prevent damage from freezing. Sorry but it wouldn't and hasn't stood up in court and that's something you are eating and not just using as cologne.

When you can call up Polo and get them to release their formula to what's in their cologne then come back and say you have the right. Otherwise you are simply talking BS!

People are justifiably upset about the lack of labeling for GMO in the US, and many other countries do require labeling.

Flavoring ingredients and aromachemicals are kept secret, yes, but don't pretend it's a one-to-one comparison: pheromones are hormones which are by definition active in humans. There's a lot of room for danger here.

(04-12-2012 6:54 PM)dbot Wrote:  Flavoring ingredients and aromachemicals are kept secret, yes, but don't pretend it's a one-to-one comparison: pheromones are hormones which are by definition active in humans. There's a lot of room for danger here.

That's why I'm holding off on the LAID shampoo/paste till it is further detailed regarding a possible DHT connection that you and Dex discussed.
Also saliva would destroy the dna of gmo - at least that is what my bud on Kaui that works for company unmentioned told me
Good thing too - herpes in corn gives me The Edge willies.

(04-12-2012 6:54 PM)dbot Wrote:  People are justifiably upset about the lack of labeling for GMO in the US, and many other countries do require labeling.

Flavoring ingredients and aromachemicals are kept secret, yes, but don't pretend it's a one-to-one comparison: pheromones are hormones which are by definition active in humans. There's a lot of room for danger here.

I'm NOT pretending that pheromones are cologne you wear on skin and food is something you eat. Not at all pretending that the dangers inherent in food pose far greater risks than pheromone colognes EVER will. Again your option is to not use a leisure product.

I'm not placing myself on either side of this debate, but food for thought on a consumers stand point regardless of product.. If I had a favorite product that a company decides to put out of production I would look within my means to find an alternative..

It would be bad karma to mess with someones business/products but if they aren't making business from something anymore, would it be still an issue of messing with them when discovering alternatives...