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Ladies, please advise
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masterfu678
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Ladies, please advise
02-29-2020 3:41 PM

Let's get straight to the point of this thread.

Last night, while I was clubbing wearing my favorite pheromone products, I encountered a lady who is really attractive, probably a latino and caucasian mix, feminine but also has a hint of masculinity. She wears black high heels, black leather pants and black leather jackets.

She is one of those ladies that has a massive "bitch shield", even if just one dude tried to dance with her, she puts up her hand and rejects the dude and completely ignores him, in fact, this lady don't want any guys near her, she only drinks with her all female friends, and dances with them, and guys who tried to dance with her, get rejected immediately, and to rub salt in the wound, this lady rejects the guys with a disgusted look on her face. Even me, I didn't ask her anything, just dance by myself near her, but she still gave me a disgusted look, and I'm wearing pheromones. Holy Grail, Ladykiler, and SXD-9 if you are wondering. This combo had worked on most of the ladies at the club, but this particular lady is not affected at all.

This really peaked my interest, so ladies on this forum, please advise on how to deal with this kind of female, and what pheromone product had worked on these type of ladies from a female point of view?

My initial theory is that since she likes to be surrounded by females only in her social circle, would a gay guy or a lesbian mone signature become attractive to her?
02-29-2020 3:41 PM
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DarkLord1
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RE: Ladies, please advise
02-29-2020 4:09 PM

(02-29-2020 3:41 PM)masterfu678 Wrote:  Let's get straight to the point of this thread.

Last night, while I was clubbing wearing my favorite pheromone products, I encountered a lady who is really attractive, probably a latino and caucasian mix, feminine but also has a hint of masculinity. She wears black high heels, black leather pants and black leather jackets.

She is one of those ladies that has a massive "bitch shield", even if just one dude tried to dance with her, she puts up her hand and rejects the dude and completely ignores him, in fact, this lady don't want any guys near her, she only drinks with her all female friends, and dances with them, and guys who tried to dance with her, get rejected immediately, and to rub salt in the wound, this lady rejects the guys with a disgusted look on her face. Even me, I didn't ask her anything, just dance by myself near her, but she still gave me a disgusted look, and I'm wearing pheromones. Holy Grail, Ladykiler, and SXD-9 if you are wondering. This combo had worked on most of the ladies at the club, but this particular lady is not affected at all.

This really peaked my interest, so ladies on this forum, please advise on how to deal with this kind of female, and what pheromone product had worked on these type of ladies from a female point of view?

My initial theory is that since she likes to be surrounded by females only in her social circle, would a gay guy or a lesbian mone signature become attractive to her?

I’m not a woman, but I have a good guess of what they might say. Move on from her.

Sometimes women go out to just hang with their friends. Sometimes they have bad days and that translates when they go out.

Sometimes the lady is a bitch and you need to keep it moving.
02-29-2020 4:09 PM
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Marcus Antonius
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RE: Ladies, please advise
02-29-2020 4:10 PM

(02-29-2020 3:41 PM)masterfu678 Wrote:  My initial theory is that since she likes to be surrounded by females only in her social circle, would a gay guy or a lesbian mone signature become attractive to her?

Sorry, I'm not a lady but: NO!

First, consider what do you want from her? Being her best female or gay friend? Or being her boyfriend and sex partner. If it's the second what benefit would it make to disguise as woman?

Second, as Gladen wrote it once: there's nothing like a bitch shield, these are looser shields. They protect her against loosers. Understand me, that could be me as well.

How to approach her? She must imho percive you as high value. So dress up in a similar way, she's all black leather and perfect - so might you. If she's spending a lot of money and attention into her outfit it is important for her. Scare her! I would use no betaish socials but DP + BW or DominationXS maybe AcsendXS, but heavy BW + Cops would imho be the best. Cover it with a good expensive high-quality perfume. Try not to be needy, play as if you would look down on her. Try to get involved in some other woman of her social circle. While a lot of the PUA stuff is not always true, the woman you describe most likely would be attracted if you neglect her. She most likely percive all men around her as low-value loosers. Present yourself as the only valuable man within 100 miles. If she's worth the trouble go the extra mile but the same time appear unimpressed.
Good luck!

Oh, ok, she might be lesbian and all is lost. Shit happens from time to time, be prepared for this as well.

Don't blame gravity for your stumbling - learn to walk!
(This post was last modified: 02-29-2020 4:18 PM by Marcus Antonius.)
02-29-2020 4:10 PM
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masterfu678
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RE: Ladies, please advise
02-29-2020 4:39 PM

(02-29-2020 4:10 PM)Marcus Antonius Wrote:  Sorry, I'm not a lady but: NO!

First, consider what do you want from her? Being her best female or gay friend? Or being her boyfriend and sex partner. If it's the second what benefit would it make to disguise as woman?

Second, as Gladen wrote it once: there's nothing like a bitch shield, these are looser shields. They protect her against loosers. Understand me, that could be me as well.

How to approach her? She must imho percive you as high value. So dress up in a similar way, she's all black leather and perfect - so might you. If she's spending a lot of money and attention into her outfit it is important for her. Scare her! I would use no betaish socials but DP + BW or DominationXS maybe AcsendXS, but heavy BW + Cops would imho be the best. Cover it with a good expensive high-quality perfume. Try not to be needy, play as if you would look down on her. Try to get involved in some other woman of her social circle. While a lot of the PUA stuff is not always true, the woman you describe most likely would be attracted if you neglect her. She most likely percive all men around her as low-value loosers. Present yourself as the only valuable man within 100 miles. If she's worth the trouble go the extra mile but the same time appear unimpressed.
Good luck!

Oh, ok, she might be lesbian and all is lost. Shit happens from time to time, be prepared for this as well.

Actually, I think your answer is great. I thought about BW+DP, products that have a high amount of none and straight up aggressive and dominating alpha might be the only way to go for her, along with coldness and pretending that she is not there. But by doing this, I might scare the reserved and nicer ladies away, and also get into fights with other guys, possibly including bouncers at the club, which is not what I am looking for.

I'm actually trying to achieve the first thing you mentioned, being her friend and get included in her social circle. Then work my way up to possibly (emphasis on possibly) being her lover, I believe a good solid friendship is the best foundation for a great romantic relationship, but that is just me. I don't actually think lesbian or gay products will work, as it is only a theory, a hypothesis for a science experiment.
02-29-2020 4:39 PM
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Marcus Antonius
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RE: Ladies, please advise
02-29-2020 4:53 PM

Understand me right, don't be an alphhole. Take Daniel Craig as James Bond in Spectre as role model. A gentlemen, well above any petty bar fight trouble but always master of the situation. Most of all master of his own emotions. Don't be mean to her, just don't let your value depending on her games. Smile and be friendly, but not needy.
Sometimes when I'm clubbing, I nurse a drink and obseve the scenery with a state of mind that all is just a movie I watch. Nothing can really harm me. I than observe the funny games the guys and gals are playing and smile. After a while this brings me in that James Bond state, or I feel as I'm the owner of the house. Try it.
Than watch her attics, and when her shield hits an unfortunate guy you smile and shake your head lightly. If by chance your eye are meeting, a one-sided chin up smile, a short eye brows upmovement and a break of eye contact sideways. Powerplay...

The thing with "the way up in her social circle" don't work imho. Biggest chance would be to be friendzoned and to become her pet dog. In that case it would be better to move on.

Don't blame gravity for your stumbling - learn to walk!
(This post was last modified: 02-29-2020 5:14 PM by Marcus Antonius.)
02-29-2020 4:53 PM
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kpown
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RE: Ladies, please advise
03-01-2020 2:04 AM

(02-29-2020 4:10 PM)Marcus Antonius Wrote:  Sorry, I'm not a lady but: NO!

First, consider what do you want from her? Being her best female or gay friend? Or being her boyfriend and sex partner. If it's the second what benefit would it make to disguise as woman?

Second, as Gladen wrote it once: there's nothing like a bitch shield, these are looser shields. They protect her against loosers. Understand me, that could be me as well.

How to approach her? She must imho percive you as high value. So dress up in a similar way, she's all black leather and perfect - so might you. If she's spending a lot of money and attention into her outfit it is important for her. Scare her! I would use no betaish socials but DP + BW or DominationXS maybe AcsendXS, but heavy BW + Cops would imho be the best. Cover it with a good expensive high-quality perfume. Try not to be needy, play as if you would look down on her. Try to get involved in some other woman of her social circle. While a lot of the PUA stuff is not always true, the woman you describe most likely would be attracted if you neglect her. She most likely percive all men around her as low-value loosers. Present yourself as the only valuable man within 100 miles. If she's worth the trouble go the extra mile but the same time appear unimpressed.
Good luck!

Oh, ok, she might be lesbian and all is lost. Shit happens from time to time, be prepared for this as well.

This is exactly what I was gunna say!
03-01-2020 2:04 AM
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raven9653
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RE: Ladies, please advise
03-02-2020 4:01 AM

Thank you to the guys here for your realistic replies. Being a true gentleman never goes out of style. Tender

Okay, so the OP wants a lady's opinion about this situation? I'm going to try to be nice, though this behavior by some men is a pet-peeve of mine...

Short answer: She's been very clear that she's not available to men (including you), so RESPECT that, give her space, and leave her alone.

Long answer: Being more attractive isn't the issue. She's not "playing hard to get," she's unavailable. Please learn the difference. Even if you found some combo she would normally be attracted to, when she's unavailable, it will have no noticeable effect. You're not going to intrigue her or persuade her with your status or charm or looks, and there is no combination of 'mones that will change that. It doesn't matter why she is unavailable, her actions are making it very clear. She's NOT there for male attention (yet, she's not short on it, either).
She is not inviting guys in, yet it seems they are all disrespecting her clear boundaries, and trying to come in anyway. They're showing disrespect by entering her space without any invitation or encouragement. She respects herself and expects others to respect her, too (which, sadly, is uncommon enough in some circles, that it is probably that which intrigues you about her). And there is the possibility that she's not attracted to men, which also could add to the "disgusted" part.

The minute you approached her space, you became just another one of those disrespectful guys in a long line of them. There is no way to counter that, with pheromones or otherwise, except to stop being disrespectful, and instead be respectful of her boundaries... which means leaving her alone. If you accidentally overstep (NOT "accidentally" in quotes, but truly did not mean to), then apologize briefly and don't do it again.

(02-29-2020 4:39 PM)masterfu678 Wrote:  I'm actually trying to achieve the first thing you mentioned, being her friend and get included in her social circle. Then work my way up to possibly (emphasis on possibly) being her lover, I believe a good solid friendship is the best foundation for a great romantic relationship, but that is just me.

No. Just don't. This isn't a rom-com. IRL, a confident, self-respecting woman is NOT going to find this kind of crap sweet and romantic; it's really just cowardly and manipulative. While I agree that friendship is a good foundation for a romantic relationship, manipulation is NOT a good start for a "good, solid friendship" OR a "great romantic relationship."

Think about the kind of woman who would allow someone to be dishonest with her, manipulate the situation, and pretend to be her friend so they could try to convince her that she doesn't know her own heart (but they do). The girl who would fall for that, is that the girl you want? Do you think having scheming friends like that is something this woman wants or needs? Real friends aren't like that.

So, to review: Don't be a jerk. Don't try to be her new friend, either, when you really want more. Go find an available woman who intrigues you instead, now that you know what to look for (high levels of self-respect and confidence).

--Amy
03-02-2020 4:01 AM
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Marcus Antonius
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RE: Ladies, please advise
03-02-2020 6:14 AM

Thank you for the honest answer and the insight! Truly.

I would typically not approach a woman without a solid invitation (typically eye contact) - maybe just in order to protect my ego and to avoid harsh rejection. I also have gotten nothing out of "cold approaches" personally. While I think that I'm not to bad in reading body language (for a man) most guys are worse than woman in catching non-verbal hints (I think a study found out that we catch on third of the consciously given signs from woman).

Now, I think that it is not wrong to try to establish a contact under the condition that the attempt is non-intrusive and respects the physical and emotional integrity and well-being of the woman. Given that, anything a man tries, verbal or non-verbal (this includes mones, dressing, behavior, eye contact and so on) is ok. The first approaches I do and that I would advocate for are always polite and gentle, rather an invitation themselves. I'm by far do not advocate overstepping, not physically nor verbally. "A No is a No" there's not the tiniest doubt - but it has to sayed and no one has to second guess what the woman described by the OP wants. I had myself just quite recently a joyful night in a club with a woman maybe quite similar (at least also highly attractive and clad in all-black). She as well rejected other guys harshly, but also literally thanked me for approached "the right way".

I think a dance club, and that's what we are talking about, is a place where a approach to the other gender is normal, mostly intended and fully ok if done respectfully. Little games with the intent to enhance the own attractiveness are imho allowed and done by man and woman. A woman dressed up in high heels and leather pants is aware that she's attracting man, most likely does it consciously and willingly and must live with the fact that men feel attracted and approach her. Attraction is not a choice. And it seems she can deal with the unwanted approaches.

We talk about a western world dance or night club. I enjoy clubbing and dancing myself and have been maybe 10 to 20 nights out in the last year. In that time I had maybe 10 cases where woman physically intrude my body space (stroking my ass, slipping papers with numbers into my back pocket, suddenly hugged me, squeezing unnecessarily close in front of me, stepped on my feet, touched my nibble while we spoke for just 10 seconds). I'm not complaining, I enjoying every case and I'm aware that I provoked that actions with my actions (behavior, dressing, mones, ...). However, I would by far not acting uninvited like that and in most cases a guy would get kicked out off a club if he would have done that (at least from the clubs I go to). I just respect women enough for granting them full responsibility about their actions as well.

So to summarize my opinion:
1. Don't do evil. Respect the will and the integrity of you fellow humans. A no is an no.
2. Men and woman try to attract potential mates, that is ok and especially a dance club is made for that
3. Try your best shot to attract the guys or gals you feel attracted to. Any means are fair as long as they do not violate point 1. Be friendly and live with the results your get.
4. If men don't mis-use their evolutionary given higher physical strength (which would the most evil violation of point 1.) most woman can pretty well rejected unwanted approaches. The woman described by the OP seems to fit in that group.

Don't blame gravity for your stumbling - learn to walk!
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2020 6:52 AM by Marcus Antonius.)
03-02-2020 6:14 AM
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Gladen
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Post: #9
RE: Ladies, please advise
03-02-2020 9:10 AM

I'm also not a wonderful lady (but I did dress in drag once for Rocky Horror), but I'll echo Raven to a certain point. She has the right of it; everything (I type) after this hinges on whether or not she's truly unavailable or just sick and tired of all the guys coming up to her with what amounts to "hey, baby; I saw you dancing, wanna fuck?" from her point of view.

A woman that is exactly as you described is not only making herself unavailable, but she's also already totally fed up with the endless parade of guys trying to "win" her. Quality ladies are not fools, they fully understand that each and every guy before you has been wanting sex. Assuming that she isn't already attached and is also into men, there isn't really any magical pheromone potion that will sway her to show even a slight modicum of interest in you (or any other guy) unless she;'s already smitten. Pheromones amount to a small boost, they aren't Glamour Spells.

Most guys see a woman like that and convince themselves that they have whatever magic in their bag of tricks to sway her to fall for him. If she's even remotely attractive, then you are probably the fiftieth guy since she walked into the club that has thought and tried that. Repeating anything that all the countless others have tried (in word, deed, actions, or spirit) will simply net the same type of results. Once bitten, twice shy holds true; but amplify that effect a hundred fold in this instance.

If you're the sort that she might be into, and if she's not already attached, and if she's into guys, the best course of action (in my humble and inexperienced opinion) would be to capture her interest from afar, create a fun, light, and DIFFERENT emotional connection well before you even bother to approach. Get her laughing and smiling and paying attention to you and then beckon her over and don't wait for her...go back to doing whatever.

Whether or not she initially approaches is academic at that point, you've just shown that you were different, interested, but not just another NPC trying to get her into bed. She'll keep her eye on you, probably trying to act like she isn't (there's a difference, you'll be able to tell). Then you just need to continue connecting with her through non-verbal communications and chances are that it will happen organically.

In a club setting like that, you have plenty of material to work with to create that initial connection. All the would-be pickup artists and alpholes © are out there, repeating the same old trite and pathetic attempts...they make the BEST wing-men ever as they provide pre-made fodder to make you look and seem awesome.

Isn't Life Actually the Kobayashi Maru? Click to Read My Journal: Gladen's Grimoire
03-02-2020 9:10 AM
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masterfu678
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RE: Ladies, please advise
03-02-2020 9:30 AM

Thank you for all the honest answers, although I have to say, it is interesting that you guys right out assumes that I get hung up on this kind of ladies. All I was asking is advice on how to best approach them, or handle them and not look like a fool, that's all, and you all already gave me the answer, so thank you all for that.

Anything I said before is speculations. Although the part of being friends is real and honest. It is more of me being respectful to their current existing relationship, if they have one. Don't know where you all get the impression of doing this is manipulative and controlling from, if that is the case, I could say the same for all the ladies that friendzone guys.

In reality, I had a lot of positive female hits from the pheromones beside this I described. In fact, I highly doubt I will see her in this club again, and that is ok. All the female hits that I did receive are from me just dancing by myself and enjoying the music, I normally don't approach anyone, but I also found that just sitting at a table won't get me any hits either, once I started dancing and not caring about anyone's opinion about what I do on the dance floor, the hits just comes to me like a flood gate had been opened. Interestingly, they are mostly blondes, a couple black hairs, and very few latinos.

You will find my reports in thread about turning any mone products into something similar to Voodoo (product), in the men section.

Good day to you all, any further advice is still appreciated. I will be reading this thread until it sinks.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2020 12:32 PM by masterfu678.)
03-02-2020 9:30 AM
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