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Beta-Ionone
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GoergeFocky
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Post: #1
Beta-Ionone
10-26-2016 10:40 AM

Here is a little gem:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Han...d2c6f7.pdf

Beta-Ionone, a widely used aromachemical, is an agonist of an olfactory receptor - that's no surprise though.

Surprising is that those ORs occur in other tissues than the olfactory ephitelium in the nose as well. This paper identified one such OR in prostrate cancer cells. When this OR is activated, the cancer stops growing . activation is hence antiproliferative.
Here is the phero-relevant bit:
The naturaly occuring main ligand of said OR is actually Dihydrotestosterone/DHT! Beta-Ionone is quite similar in structure to DHT.

The phero-implications are "potentialy" manifold though I'm not sure yet how exactly beta-ionone might work, if it works, as a phero.

There are DHT receptors in the CNS and other tissue, but does BI activate them as well?
Highely likely.

Does it mean that BI will have the same effects as DHT, at least phero-wise (neurological effects)
Debateable, when DHT's CNS related actions are probably also induced by it's degradation products/metabolites (see 5b-androstanediol post)

Or are there OR receptors like those in the prostrate in the brain as well?
Possibly, not yet researched.
Would activation of those have phero-effects? Again, highly likely.

The good bit: Beta-Ionone is cheap cheap vheap and freely available at perfumer supply websites i the US and the UK (for europe). Testing is relatively uncomplicated. It has an interesting smell on it's own as well, very errogenous actualy.
I've always wondered why Arabs like to wear heavily "floral" perfumes, including rose. Beta-Ionone is a component of Rose' volatiles .. maybe there is the explaination - it's a highly testosterone-charged culture is what they say at least.

Beta-Ionone might also explain some of Astaxanthins activity - some carotenids degrade to ionones - probably Scent of Eros AXT mlecules undego this mechanism after inhalation.



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10-26-2016 10:40 AM
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Post: #2
RE: Beta-Ionone
10-26-2016 11:02 AM

Seems to be some form of ideal ratio between alpha and beta ionones that produces the best synergy effect.

Nutrix and Wiserd did alot of work with these. A search for ionone in the box will probably produce more reading material and another rabbit trail for those interested.
10-26-2016 11:02 AM
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Post: #3
RE: Beta-Ionone
10-26-2016 12:08 PM

This supports a theory I read about something similar to ORs in the lining of the vagina, for purposes such as evaluating the quality of semen received. It was part of a discussion covering spousal loss of interest in sex after the husband had a vasectomy.

I've never seen a paper researching anything like this, so I have nothing that qualifies as evidence to support this and am in no position to defend that theory. That said, it seems interesting and plausible. Moreso now that they're finding ORs in prostates.
10-26-2016 12:08 PM
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wiserd
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Post: #4
RE: Beta-Ionone
10-26-2016 2:47 PM

There's been some use of beta-ionone on this forum. One example;

http://pherotruth.com/Thread-Violets-and...eta+ionone

Personally, I've found that violet leaf is a really good masculine green note. I never got the right dosage with the purified beta-ionone, though I have a bottle in my garage somewhere. Violet leaf extract being better (for me, anyways) than pure beta-ionone meshes with Thundr's observation that a mix of ionones might be better than one purified form. ( I wonder if he'd be generous enough to explain why that might happen? )

"One quirk of some Viola is the elusive scent of their flowers; along with terpenes, a major component of the scent is a ketone compound called ionone, which temporarily desensitises the receptors of the nose, thus preventing any further scent being detected from the flower until the nerves recover."

Constituents of violet leaf;

Alpha-ionone, beta-ionone, beta-sitosterol, eugenol, ferulic acid, kaempferol, malic acid, methyl salicylate, palmitic acid, quercetin, rutin, scopoletin, vanillin.

https://www.mountainroseherbs.com/produc...af/profile

I'd note that weak agonists can sometimes act as antagonists to stronger ligands.

[Image: Example.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 10-26-2016 2:56 PM by wiserd.)
10-26-2016 2:47 PM
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GoergeFocky
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Post: #5
RE: Beta-Ionone
10-27-2016 12:12 AM

@wised: Do you figure alpha-ionone to be a weak agonist/antagonist here?

The study indicates that ß-ionone has the same agonistic action like DHT.

And while it seems obvious to take the alpha isomer into the equation, I think it should be noted that it might be one of nature's "unfathomable" coincidences that ß-ionone has a very similar structure to DHT and it's scent and the fact that it occurs in Violet leafs etc. is to be disregarded when considering the pheromone/neurological use of the molecule.

That is the fallacy that led many to discard hedione as well - extrapolating from the flower Jasmine and somehow constructing a connecting between Jasmine being estrogenic (without any proof for that) and therefore hedione as well. While actualy Hedine's MoA is much rather be explained by it's molecule structure that brings it much closer to 5a-steroids.

In terms of quantity, I'd suggest a dilution somewhere betwenn 0,5-2%. In n the famous Grosjman-accord, the ionones (albeit methyl) take up to 20% of the perfume-oil concentrate (~2% of a fictive 10% EDP) and that is what most perfumer websites suggest.

I aslo find that violet is a good masculine green-note/flower.
Systemical application of ß-ionone would be interesting!

On another note, the study mentions that the onyl other ligand they identified for the said OR is this molecule:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1,4,6-Andr...3,17-dione

a potent permanent aromatase-inhibitor! We know that one of the most powerful pheromones is -Etrione, which has similar properties.
Many interesting implications.
10-27-2016 12:12 AM
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Post: #6
RE: Beta-Ionone
10-27-2016 7:57 AM

http://www.jbc.org/content/early/2016/05...7.abstract

Beta-Ionone is also a ligand to ORs expressed in Skin-Melanocytes and regulate their activity
10-27-2016 7:57 AM
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wiserd
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Post: #7
RE: Beta-Ionone
10-28-2016 10:06 AM

Hm. So apparently the anti-proliferation effects aren't due (at least entirely) to interaction with the androgen receptor after all.
Quote:Stimulation of PSGR1 by the odorant β-ionone leads to an increase in the intracellular Ca(2+) concentration, activation of mitogen-activated protein (MAP) kinases and a decrease in prostate cancer cell proliferation.

http://www.empiregenomics.com/search/gen...2/articles

It's effects in castrated rodents seem to back that up.

[Image: Example.jpg]
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2016 2:14 AM by wiserd.)
10-28-2016 10:06 AM
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