Well, yesterday Ail from Love Potion came over here to link to a post she had put up on the LPMP forum (which cannot be seen without registering) which she claimed contained "important info" for men about using copulins. A number of us went over there to read it, and I even signed up for that forum just to be able to read it, only to find that it was some rant about how cops on men are just bad mkay.

A number of people responded to the thread here on PT with a variety of arguments, which Ail responded to by deleting the whole thread -- which I guess she was able to do since she started it. However, I consider that censorship of all the posts which had been added to the thread by our members, and I certainly don't appreciate that kind of censorship.

Unfortunately, there's no way for me to retrieve the contents on the posts that were deleted, and Google doesn't have a cached copy available or I'd quote everything here. As it is, let me show you the post from LPMP that Ail linked to, and you can respond however you want:

Ail )O( Wrote:Okay..I am posting this because I read earlier at another forum a youngish gentlemen saying that he MIGHT come over here and ask a question about copulins..But that was hours ago and since I have yet to see ANY evidence of him doing so, I'm taking the initiative and answering it BEFORE he even asks, to show him that we DON'T bite here (not unless we are ASKED to - and VERY nicely, that is.....So here we go - again..

I am first of all going to refer that gentleman and indeed any OTHER gentlemen who read this, back to the FIRST post in this thread, then after absorbing the entire thread and soaking it up like a sponge, I recommend you come back here, and by that time I will probably be sitting here with a glass of Merlot, ready to answer any further queries you may have.. ^_^

So if you really want to know the honest facts about men using copulins, then I am going to give you ALL the brass facts, and I am well aware that some of your male noses may be put RIGHT out of joint, by my candid bluntness, but hey - I tell it like it IS..

Now..A quick word on why some male pheromone users try products containing copulins - and the reasons why many of them should just SERIOUSLY give them a miss..

Reiterating points from WAY back when this thread was started..

The reason there is a SMIDGEN of copulins in a couple of men's products, is to add a "bad-boy" edge to the male user. There is a school of thought (which I do NOT subscribe to - and I have been using cops for 17 years now) in those who have a "PUA" mentality, that men using cops may come over to some women as desirable, because basically the vibe they are giving off, is that of a guy who has literally just "left" a woman post-flagrante.

Personally, for me, that is a total turn-off, and I would be heading for the hills, but each to their own, and some women it would appear do indeed like the idea that a guy gets around. Some - not many. I really wish the guys would get that one, and that they would realise once and for all that if they are in an Long Term Relationship and wear copulins around their girlfriend/wife/SO - they are far more likely to end up sleeping on the floor, rather than being 3 ft ABOVE it, doing a Freddie Flintstone and making her bed rock!

Okay, so here's WHY that's the case, and this is especially for all your gentlemen who are reading and/or lurking..

Have any of you guys ever been caught cheating on your partner, BY your partner - but you didn't have a CLUE how she could have found out? In other words, one day you thought you were home and dry, she'd said NOTHING to indicate she might have an inkling that you were doing the Horizontal Lambada with Sexy-Samantha from Expenses three nights a week - yet out of the blue she suddenly tells you she KNOWS you have been cheating, and then five minutes later, after she has turned the air BLUE with the barrage of curse words she uses to describe JUST how much of a WORM you are - she has unceremoniously thrown you out on your sad behind, and you are left wondering what the HELL just happened..

HERE is what just happened..She could smell COPULINS on you, you daft NUMPTY - and they were NOT hers!

So you now LOGICALLY try to discern WHY what just occurred, HAS occurred.. You break it down a bit like this, in fact.

Did you cover your tracks fastidiously? YES!
Did you ensure there was no paper-trail back to your illicit dealings? YES!
Did you enlist your best friend to lie his ASS off to your SO if ever questioned about whether or not you MIGHT be playing away? YES!

But you were STILL caught - because you just DIDN'T use your head! Or rather - you did, but your LITTLE head should NOT make ALL your decisions for you..Once in a while it's REALLY vital to engage and put into gear the head that's ABOVE your shoulders, guys..

So how did she know? Simple..The reason is Copulins. MEN do NOT produce them, and the ONLY way they can ever BE on a man, is if he has just had sex, or if he bought himself a bottle of artificial ones, fancied his chances at Russian Roulette and DOUSED himself in them right before meeting his SO for a drink/date-night/WHATEVER..and trust me on this gents, a woman's brain generally does NOT even CONSIDER the possibility that you would EVER have cause to use the artificial version, and she KNOWS how her OWN smell!

So just in case I need to spell this OUT to you all - if any of you gents are UNHAPPY in your Long Term Relationship, and if you are TRYING to get your lady to end it because you are too much of a coward to DO so, THEN have at it -- wear a boatload of copulins. and just watch her sail into the sunset - forever..

On the OTHER hand.. for those gentlemen who are in LTRs and who actually wish to PRESERVE and hang ON to what you have - throw the damn bottle in the bin, or stomp on it from a great height (outside, of course - unless you wish to come to a slow and painful end once your lady smells the alien copulins that have invaded every PORE of your home), or gift it to a male friend who is NOT in an Long Term Relationship - and who LIKES to smell like a man-slut!

As for the notion that some men may give you respect when you wear copulins..Maybe. The sort of men who ALSO think it's cool to smell AND act like a man-Slut/Himbo, perhaps.. But again, that type of guy does NOT appeal to a broad-spectrum of women..

Now..In order to avoid over-generalising here, I would say that probably about the only women the "taken" vibe IS liable to be attractive TO - are those under 25.. After that age we women tend to learn fast, and we become VERY clued-up about who we DO want to be with, and who we would kick to the kerb as soon as we have had our evil way with him..

What's that you say? Women don't ACT like that? Are you living in the same century as me, gents? In MY world, women are doing it ALL for themselves nowadays.OH yes..Shock horror, gentlemen.... WOMEN LIKE SEX JUST for the SAKE of it at times, TOO, you know! If a woman wants a ONS who she can kick out the door at the same time as taking the milk in off her doorstep, THEN she MIGHT be interested in a man who smells like he just left another woman's bed..But if she wants someone with more SUBSTANCE, and with more DEPTH than a shallow PUDDLE, then she is going to tune out (and shoot laser-sharp ICICLES from her eyes, at) ANY man who comes on to her SMELLING like he just left a brothel..

SOME women ARE indeed attracted to a man JUST because they can instinctively sense that he has been "pre-qualified" *Gag* by other women (or in the case of guys wearing artificial copulins, these women believe they are smelling evidence that this guy has very recently shagged another woman) but it is a VERY small minority who FEEL that way..

This, incidentally, is a subject that is VERY close to my heart, and a subject that I have lectured tens of THOUSANDS of University students in, over a period of over 23 years, so as they say, I knowest of what I SPEAK - and I AM speaking with authority here:

The reason for the hit or miss nature of men using copulins, is fundamentally-simple: Men do NOT produce cops naturally, in any way, shape or form. They are vaginal secretionsONLY produced by women. The application of a cops-based product to a woman intent on attracting a man, renders a scientifically-basic result:

It is scientifically-proven that when a man comes into contact with a WOMAN WHO IS WEARING COPULINS, then within 20 minutes maximum (my experience as I have often posted, is much closer to 10 minutes tops) his testosterone level WILL elevate from baseline by approx. 130% - 150%. Those proven statistics are in reference to a MALE'S testosterone level.

This is why cops are more-or-less seen as a fail-safe, when WOMEN wear them to attract men, but it must be emphasised here that the same does NOT follow when a man uses them, as you men simply do not produce copulins, so you are throwing out signals that NO brain can compute logically.

CONTRARY to what some people in the pheromone world would LIKE to have you believe, copulins also do NOT relax a woman when she wears them, OR when a man wears them. That is utter BUNKUM and a load of old POPPYCOCK! They do NOT do that, and they CANNOT do that! Please don't try to turn them into something they are not.. *Ail's rant of the day is now over*

Artificial copulins are NOT some complex isomer with SUPERPOWERS (although I am the first to admit that the effect they DO have on a man when a woman wears them around him, definitely really CAN leave a woman feeling that SHE has super powers) but they are NOT a toy the majority of men should think of adding to their pheromone arsenals, and no that is NOT Just my opinion, that is SCIENCE, gents..And we women know JUST how much you men like logic and science, after all..^_~ Just in case anyone happened to miss this by the way, I am ALSO a woman of science - a Doctor. NOT just some silly wee woman who is merely here to spout her opinions.. Hope that clears THAT up as well.. ^_^

I really hope that my somewhat light-hearted post hits home to at least ONE man who reads this - THIS time.

I have just come back to this, to ensure that I have put a certain point in bold, because it appears that someone at another forum either simply DID NOT READ WHAT I TYPED, or has misunderstood something, so I HOPE it is now clearer..

Oh and I adore using copulins, and particularly Essence of Woman , incidentally - when I wear it around The Lovely Man of My Life, that is....But even though we have been together a very long time, you better believe I STILL never wear any product containing copulins around ANY other man, and my very good reasons for THAT, are in the FIRST post of this very thread..

Sometimes I wish people would read an entire thread in full, BEFORE they make silly, baseless and unfounded comments..

Blessings

Ail )O(

Now I responded over at LPMP by saying this:

dbot Wrote:Well, if copulins work like pheromones -- and I suspect that they do -- then the conscious-reasoning reactions you guys describe would be unlikely to take place.

I think it's much more useful to test things out and see what actual effects are effected, rather than sit around ranting and conjecturing about what might happen and what it might mean. A couple guys over at PheroTruth have been solo testing copulins in a variety of environments and finding some interesting and perhaps unexpected results.

And for that matter "copulins" is plural, meaning a whole complex of molecules. That's like referring to pheromones as axial secretions. I'm betting that someone will manage to isolate some of these substances at some point so we can figure out what effects they each have individually.

And here came a rather unexpected answer from Ail! :

Ail )O( Wrote:Oh wow.. Well for a kick off, this thread was originally created YEARS ago (please check the date of the first post) for WOMEN who use female pheromones and copulins..

I added the post last night mainly because I am sick and tired of seeing so much misinformation all OVER the www about men using copulins.

In Layman's terms, pheromones work on a subconsciousness level, copulins which are vaginal secretions, are a GROUP of lipids and fatty acids, that work on an olfactory level, which can indeed TRIGGER the subconscious reactions seen in men..End of similarities..Those are the facts using Layman's terms..I would still be here this time next WEEK, if I were to put it scientifically..Maybe Chris would be happy to do that for you! ^_^

You men are free to call a spade a shovel all you like, but the science of this matter, is indisputable. Just because you WANT something to work in a way in which you THINK it should work, does NOT make it so. Believe me, if that were the case, then I could have just sat back, filed my nails, and not failed even ONE student over a period of almost a quarter of a century..But that is definitely NOT the case..

It appears that you men are also assuming that many of the women posters here and at other forums have not SEEN first-hand for themselves, the adverse reactions men using copulins CAN, and very often DO, get from women. That would be WRONG, guys....

Yes, Androtics pulled just about every post that Dolly and I ever made, right from way back in 2004, labelling us both as "Commercial Spammers" into the bargain, and proceeding to try to shut us up when we totally exploded about their use of "smoke and mirrors" and their umpteen MILLION lies.. That is all VERY true.. But I'm sure if you looked hard enough through the archives, there will still be some hard data and posts we made about this VERY issue..Posts that the Dark Force did NOT manage to destroy..We also both still have thousands of posts over at Love Scent..

At times I wish the lovely Tisha would pop her head back over here once in a while, as she would soon back up what we have said. She frequently tries to at other forums, in fact - it's just that every single time she DOES, for some reason the guy who ASKED the question takes in ONLY what the other GUYS are telling him, and he pointedly IGNORES Tisha's wisdom about men using copulins. Even when she tells the men posters that they can use copulins in their mixes if they want to try a different angle, with ONE caveat - there are NOT many women who even WANT someone who so blatantly advertises the fact he's just been with another woman. TRUE.

It's a real shame that her posts on that issue get ignored too, because Tisha has been using pheromones and copulins for ALMOST as long as myself and Dolly have, and what she is saying is the truth..But it frequently gets buried under flotsam and jetsam and macho gummf - because some guys apparently just do not LIKE reading the truth..

At the end of the day, it's YOUR hard-earned money guys, and it is entirely your RIGHT and YOUR decision to fritter it away as you see fit. Just please don't start whining and belly-aching to each other about how something you THOUGHT should work in a certain way, did not - because you have been dished up a PLETHORA of hard facts here..

Short of me actually pulling off several papers which indeed do offer scientific evidence to support the non-scientific anecdotal evidence about men using copulins - the latter being data that is FREELY available to ANYONE who chooses to look in the right places, there really isn't much else I can say on this..and since I am bound by the law and ethics, not to mention the Hippocratic Oath, I am therefore prohibited from presenting such evidence to anyone of a non-medical background..So it would appear gents, that we have reached an impasse.

In closing: If any of you men do decide to dabble in using copulins - good luck with your "adventures!" You may well NEED it, and forewarned is forearmed, after all.. ^_^

Blessings

Ail )O(

My response on LPMP to follow...

dbot Wrote:

Ail )O( Wrote:Oh wow.. Well for a kick off, this thread was originally created YEARS ago (please check the date of the first post) for WOMEN who use female pheromones and copulins..

I added the post last night mainly because I am sick and tired of seeing so much misinformation all OVER the www about men using copulins.

In Layman's terms, pheromones work on a subconsciousness level, copulins which are vaginal secretions, are a GROUP of lipids and fatty acids, that work on an olfactory level, which can indeed TRIGGER the subconscious reactions seen in men..End of similarities..Those are the facts using Layman's terms..I would still be here this time next WEEK, if I were to put it scientifically..Maybe Chris would be happy to do that for you! ^_^

You men are free to call a spade a shovel all you like, but the science of this matter, is indisputable. Just because you WANT something to work in a way in which you THINK it should work, does NOT make it so. Believe me, if that were the case, then I could have just sat back, filed my nails, and not failed even ONE student over a period of almost a quarter of a century..But that is definitely NOT the case..

Wow, Ail, I'm quite surprised by your ability to be so condescending to a stranger whose background you know nothing about.

The only reason I came over here at all was because of your presumptive post over on PheroTruth claiming that you had important "information" to share about men using copulins. So don't act like I came over here to wake up some old thread you hadn't thought about in years. By the way, I find it offensive that you then went back to PT and deleted the thread you had started, including all the responses to it. I'm an admin at PT and I don't appreciate your effective censoring of our members.

Second, I'm very well aware that copulins are a group of fatty acids, not just one molecule. I'm the one who pointed that out. But thanks, I guess.

Your statement that the similarities end there is not based on any facts. The fact is that both the fatty acids now referred to as copulins and the steroids and amines referred to as pheromones appear to be active through the sense of smell, where they modify neurological responsivity in a variety of ways. Beyond that little is known.

I personally do not have any preconceptions of what copulins are supposed to do; it sounds like you do. I have used them only a handful of times, and never experienced any negative results. And, as I said, several people at PheroTruth are doing the fieldwork of actually testing these things in practice and writing detailed reports so that we can all surmise what they actually do.

Ail )O(' Wrote:It appears that you men are also assuming that many of the women posters here and at other forums have not SEEN first-hand for themselves, the adverse reactions men using copulins CAN, and very often DO, get from women. That would be WRONG, guys.....

You're building an awful big strawman when you talk about what "men" are assuming.

Ail )O(' Wrote:At the end of the day, it's YOUR hard-earned money guys, and it is entirely your RIGHT and YOUR decision to fritter it away as you see fit. Just please don't start whining and belly-aching to each other about how something you THOUGHT should work in a certain way, did not - because you have been dished up a PLETHORA of hard facts here..

Short of me actually pulling off several papers which indeed do offer scientific evidence to support the non-scientific anecdotal evidence about men using copulins - the latter being data that is FREELY available to ANYONE who chooses to look in the right places, there really isn't much else I can say on this..and since I am bound by the law and ethics, not to mention the Hippocratic Oath, I am therefore prohibited from presenting such evidence to anyone of a non-medical background..So it would appear gents, that we have reached an impasse.

In closing: If any of you men do decide to dabble in using copulins - good luck with your "adventures!" You may well NEED it, and forewarned is forearmed, after all.. ^_^

I haven't gone back and read the whole thread, only the post that you asked me to come over here and read when you posted on PheroTruth. And that particular post contains nothing but your own opinions. There aren't any "hard facts" in it or even any soft facts. That is, no data, and not even an anecdote. Just you ranting on about your personal opinion.

But now I see that you are saying that you have the scientific papers to prove whatever it is that you are saying, but you are bound by some oath not to show scientific research to non-medical personnel?? That's preposterous! There is absolutely no such ethical requirement. In fact, the public can access at least the abstracts for most peer reviewed research through PubMed, with many having the full text available for free. So put up or shut up.

I like the way she EMPHASIZE some points This type of typing is ANNOYING at max. Someone should learn how to type/present some ideas properly if they are representing their company.

Ail )O( Wrote:I am perfectly free to delete whatever thread I like from our forum at Pherotruth, as I think you will find if you ask Mark, and the reason it was deleted had nothing whatsoever to do with censorship, Dbot.

I will NOT be attacked on ANY forum by people who post unsubstantiated nonsense, and my response above your one here, was in fact addressed to ALL the men reading it, and to ALL the men who responded and attacked me over there. It's interesting to me that you chose to make my post all about YOU, considering the educational path you appear to have chosen for yourself...But I digress..

I will NOT have people attacking me or any member from LPMP for that matter, and anybody who does NOT want to read facts that I will NEVER sugar-coat, does not need to come over here at all.. The gentleman who was asking the question about men using copulins, was spinning his wheels, because he was having his head filled with a load of rubbish BY other male users, and it was time to put that record straight.

I am aware you are an Admin over at Pherotruth, and you are no doubt fully aware that I am an Admin HERE, so if I had ANY interest in merely censoring what was said there, simply because i didn't AGREE with it, then surely it would follow that I would have subsequently ALSO deleted your post in THIS Thread, Dbot? But of course, I did not..It was not ABOUT censorship..I deleted the thread over there because some of your members ATTACKED me for NO reason, and that was not on.

Blessings

Ail )O(

dbot Wrote:

Ail )O( Wrote:I am perfectly free to delete whatever thread I like from our forum at Pherotruth, as I think you will find if you ask Mark, and the reason it was deleted had nothing whatsoever to do with censorship, Dbot.

False. The forum software allows users to delete threads which they themselves have posted. We are now looking into a way to prevent people from deleting threads which have been responded to.

Ail )O( Wrote:I will NOT be attacked on ANY forum by people who post unsubstantiated nonsense, and my response above your one here, was in fact addressed to ALL the men reading it, and to ALL the men who responded and attacked me over there. It's interesting to me that you chose to make my post all about YOU, considering the educational path you appear to have chosen for yourself...But I digress..

I responded as though your response was to me because I was the only one who came over here and posted. If you wanted to reply to everyone over at PT, you had no reason not to simply post your reply there.

Ail )O( Wrote:I deleted the thread over there because some of your members ATTACKED me for NO reason...

False. There was strong disagreement as well as criticism, but no attacks. Neither of us can substantiate this point now because you censored the replies.

Ail )O( Wrote:Over here the general public have absolutely NO right whatsoever to access the majority of factual medical papers, and I doubt very much that the ruling on that is ANY different in the US, to here in Scotland. Doctors have to take the Hippocratic Oath, Dbot, and that is NOTHING to do with me putting up or shutting up. Please watch your tone when posting here incidentally, as you are rapidly becoming slightly aggressive and confrontational, neither of which are tolerated here.

I will not be cuckolded Dbot, and you are trying to mess with the WRONG woman, if you think I am going to be pushed into bending to pressure to post scientific data..I will NOT be forced into a corner - ever - not by you, or by anyone else..

If you choose to continue posting here, then you will be made very welcome to do so, but you will definitely receive very short shrift should you decide to CONTINUE to add an unwelcome note of discord to this harmonious community..

Blessings

Ail )O(

dbot Wrote:There are restrictions against exposing the public to science in Scotland?? That cannot be right. You have referred several times to the Hippocratic oath. That is an oath to do no harm. I am not aware of any studies indicating that exposure to scientific literature is harmful.

lol I'm based in England, never heard of such a thing, I can access medical peer reviewed journal papers and I'm not in the medical field.

I don't understand her aggressive and feministic tone. By the way it strikes me that there is a massive gender problem in the mone community...

In a aggressive, smarty-pants way... It's not the first time... I don't understand it, it's a shame because I think many of them are very intelligent... Why is taht?

I also don't understand the ethic problem, everyone can do what he pleases... I think this ethic thing is the key problem...

By the way, I see also nothing spectacular with cops in the moment and I know it's a no go for a relationship ... She is right on this point also that there is no depth... But for a ONS, why not, if it works...?

Hey Johnny You might want to change ethnic to ethic otherwise you might come across as a bit racist.

Sorry, I mean ethic.